# Message boards and Nazi invasions **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 16, 2002, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/message-boards-and-nazi-invasions/109389 "2002-05-16T14:16:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Daoloth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/message-boards-and-nazi-invasions/109389/21 "2002-05-16T23:04:08Z")
Good idea. I ended a neo-Nazi debate once with an argument that went like this (paraphrased): You’re always complaining about how the Jews control the media, entertainment industry, government, economy, etc. Yet, there are relatively few Jews compared to white non-Jews. Given this proportion, and the Jewish power, I believe that it’s evident that Jews are superior to whites, given all their success with so few resources. No one responded. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/message-boards-and-nazi-invasions/109389/22 "2002-05-16T23:15:11Z")
Tactically, the best thing might be to lock most threads on similar topics and direct discussion to only a few. Quarantine the infection to a limited area to prevent such threads from dominating a forum. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/message-boards-and-nazi-invasions/109389/23 "2002-05-16T23:50:16Z")
There was an invasion attempt here by what can be best descibed as Liverpool soccer hooligans. That was handled deftly and quickly. With Collunsbury, Biggirl, sailor and the others here, the neo-Nazis will have no chance. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/message-boards-and-nazi-invasions/109389/24 "2002-05-17T00:31:38Z")
There is something drastically wrong with me. When I look at that Stormfront page (well, their pages), I can’t help but think, “Come on. People don’t _really_ think like this!” gulp I mean, this has to be a joke, right? > [@](#): > > Well I am getting sick of reading these nasty hate filled messages. I would really appreciate it if the people visiting my site would please keep this in mind, if your thoughts towards me are as sick, and vile as some people, please keep them to yourself. After all, I am only thirteen years old and I really do not need your hateful thoughts in my head. That quote alone should say: no way. These suckers come here and they must leave. There is _no way_ we could fight this kind of ignorance… well, we could try before we kick them out, of course, I have no problem with that. But anyone who _seriously_ writes stuff like the above… well, what the hell could we do, anyway? This is why the government doesn’t have any message boards. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/message-boards-and-nazi-invasions/109389/25 "2002-05-17T00:39:08Z")
I’ve only once complained to a MB admin about a user – and it was a neo-Nazi. in 1999, the [about.com](http://about.com) civil liberties board was barely moderated at all, and all sorts of nastiness went on. Some of the discussions were fun, and some were awful. There were a couple of neo-nazis who posted under one another’s usernames and spammed and flamed and hijacked every thread they could, until finally a couple of us wrote the moderators. The nazis were eventually banned, after several warnings. I’m strongly in favor of free speech; at the same time, I recognize that speech leads to ideas leads to action, and we gotta be careful how we exercise our right to free speech. Here’s how I think Nazis should be handled: -The mainstream media shouldn’t ever interview neoNazis, unless they’re willing to give a thorough debunking either during or after the interview. Most people can see through the Nazi claptrap, but some people (especially, it seems, disaffected young white males) can’t. And doing an interview without providing a truthful context just gives NeoNazis the ultimate in recruiting tools: a giant megaphone. -On message boards, debating neoNazis is fruitless. However, you don’t want their venom to go unanswered: if it does, it can look as if you’re conceding the point to them, and ignorant impressionable folk that read their nonsense might think there’s something there. I think a standard, cut-and-paste response that says, “For a thorough debunking of this evil, check out [http://www.holocaust-history.org/](http://www.holocaust-history.org/) .” Engaging the tweakers in debate just gives them the attention they crave, but they do need to be countered. This is a way to do it that doesn’t satisfy their pathetic little egos. It’s important to remember that most Holocaust deniers are dishonest: they KNOW that they’re lying. Debate with an opponent who deliberately falsifies the truth is futile. You don’t want to address the liar, then: you want to address any potential audience. Them’s my thoughts. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/message-boards-and-nazi-invasions/109389/26 "2002-05-17T14:17:09Z")
Brilliant, **Daniel**. I agree - their ideas should be countered with a view of convincing others who may be listening in. But they certainly shouldn’t be given free rein on a message board, if the Michael Moore MB is to serve as an example. **Daoloth** - that was hilarious! I am going to have to remember that one. ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2002, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/message-boards-and-nazi-invasions/109389/27 "2002-05-18T15:11:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*You know, a common enemy might end all the bickering and in-fighting that happen on this board, breifly. But i’d love to stomp me some nazi butt. \*\* So, head on over to the Michael Moore message board, and have at 'em! ---
**Author:** ![Colinito67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5daacb/32.png) [@Colinito67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colinito67)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2002, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/message-boards-and-nazi-invasions/109389/28 "2002-05-18T15:30:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Olentzero \* > \*\*Mm, I am of the opinion that sometimes fighting ignorance requires more than sound, reasoned debate. > > To me, this board is kinda like a garden. You don’t take care of weeds by trying to add more fertilizer to the flowers and hoping the weeds don’t get any. You gotta pull 'em out by the roots. > > In this instance, _and this instance only_, I would unconditionally support immediate banning. It might make the mods’ jobs a little harder for a while in hunting the offenders down, but even complete idiots like Nazis eventually get the idea they’re not wanted once it’s pounded into their tiny little heads enough. \*\* I wouldn’t. Just because Nazism is an unpopular ideology doesn’t mean that Nazis shouldn’t be allowed to post to philosophy forums. If you ban them, what are you going to ban next? It is dangerous, even in a microcosm such as the SDMB, to immediately ban someone from expressing their opinion, provided they followed the rules. I’d say Nazism is an easy enough of an ideology to tear apart. “say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism, atleast its an ethos” 🙂 colin ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/message-boards-and-nazi-invasions/109389/29 "2002-05-19T20:32:59Z")
Except for Olentzero, you guys are being naive. If you’ve ever seen, for instance, the holocaust denial stuff routinely posted to Usenet, you would know that you cannot argue with these people. They could not win any argument, and they know this, therefore their strategy is basically post the same drivel again, over and over and over. They never go away. You can refute it each time, but it doesn’t make any difference, because these guys don’t care about proving themselves correct, only about getting their message out there. I see nothing wrong with banning them outright and blocking their IP’s. This board has banned people for far less in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/message-boards-and-nazi-invasions/109389/30 "2002-05-19T20:59:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avumede \* > They could not win any argument, and they know this, therefore their strategy is basically post the same drivel again, over and over and over. They never go away. [. . .] > I see nothing wrong with banning them outright and blocking their IP’s. This board has banned people for far less in the past. After they do it, you ban them. After a particular ISP is used to mask identity, you block it. And if they do, I am sure our Mods will slog through the necessary work to eliminate jerks. But you don’t do it before hand, because you don’t fight ignorance by limiting the voices which are heard, you fight ignorance by speaking the truth, and supporting it with real facts. An accusation is not guilt. An ignorant man does not have an irresistible argument. Refusing to listen isn’t a refutation. ## Tris “The road to truth is lined the entire way with annoying bastards.” ~ Alexander Jablonski ~ ---
**Author:** ![Jojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecd19e/32.png) [@Jojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jojo)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/message-boards-and-nazi-invasions/109389/31 "2002-05-20T03:28:42Z")
I checked out the MM board, I don’t think there is much to fear. A thread over there consists of a nazi making a series of assertions and thereafter posting large (anti-semitic) pictures in a sub-Hitlerian style attempt at propaganda. The idea being to subliminally reinforce the (so far, unfounded) assertions. On SD we can’t insert bullshit pictures into our posts, we have to talk. This means that if we talk shit, we get found out pretty soon. This means that they would have to back up each and every assertion with evidence or they would risk being a jerk and therefore getting banned. They would find this difficult, however, because the weight of evidence is against them. The SD columns [Is there any factual basis for Holocaust denial?](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mdeniers.html) and [What’s the story with the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”?](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mzionprotocol.html) are interesting reads. So they would eventually have to fall back on opinion and give up, or trolldom and get banned. Simple really. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/message-boards-and-nazi-invasions/109389/32 "2002-05-20T06:53:18Z")
Go read some threads on the Stormfront boards. In a thread about Hitler, the very first words of the very first response were “Personally, I think Hitler was a really good guy”. Nope, I ain’t kiddin’ ya. I say, if they want to come, let them. I read through the rest of that thread and there wasn’t ANYTHING that a good “Cite?” wouldn’t stop. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/message-boards-and-nazi-invasions/109389/33 "2002-05-20T06:56:40Z")
Those Nazis can’t possibly triumph over us - we have **SPOOFE** and toothbrushes on our side… ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/message-boards-and-nazi-invasions/109389/34 "2002-05-20T09:58:29Z")
I thought I’d take a look at this Stormfront site. Good grief. If I’ve ever called anyone here at the SDMB ‘ignorant’ or ‘intolerant’, I take it all back. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/message-boards-and-nazi-invasions/109389/35 "2002-05-20T15:12:26Z")
These guys are gonna give Nazis a bad name. Tris [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/message-boards-and-nazi-invasions/109389.md?page=1)