Just in case any readers of this thread don’t take the time to click on those links, psychobunny was being sarcastic. They’re about how an Ivy League education doesn’t mean you’ll get a high-paying job.
As a general word of advice from someone who has done a great deal of professional research in the area, parents should be fairly careful with the summer programs for high schoolers run by elite universities. There are a handful of truly prestigious programs, but for many universities (include most of the Ivy Leagues), these programs are revenue generating activities. Some of these programs can be mind-boggling expensive- we are talking about five figures for a couple of weeks on campus. It’s not uncommon for them to be run by outside partners, with little involvement from the school beyond the facilities, brand name, and maybe a few professors.
Parents shell out for them under the mistaken impression that they will give an inside edge in admissions. In reality, admissions staff understands that these are extremely expensive programs that are more about what you can pay for than what you have done. While they aren’t seen as a bad way to spend the summer, neither are they seen as particularly impressive. It doesn’t put you at any more of an advantage than a kid who had to work at McDonalds over the summer to make ends meet but can weave that into a really coherent personal narrative. In reality, what top schools actually want to see is something that shows sustained commitment and real depth to an interest over the course of years. Making a measurable difference in a local homeless shelter is going to be seen as way more compelling than one of those “shell out for photo ops with orphans” volunteer-vacations to Africa, for example.
As a general rule, the handful of truly prestigious university-affiliated programs are free, and are usually as competitive to get into as it would be to get into the university itself.
I don’t really see the issue, life is not fair.
But anyway I would just pursue it as a friendship and if something happens then great if not then well carry on. Seems like decent bloke.
etv78 is unhappy with how his life has turned out thus far. He has made posts that back up Bob Ducca’s FYI re:salt ingestion.
As a result, etv78 is posting rather histrionically in this thread. His personal narrative relies on his parents playing the role of his bêtes noires, so their (perceived) mistakes regarding himself and his education grow into intentional transgressions of their parental duty. Thus etv78 is a victim of circumstance and cannot be held responsible for how his life has turned out. This narrative denies personal agency in exchange for absolution from accountability.
So how IS this circumstance different from job networking? Sure, you hear all the time about nepotism at the workplace, but that doesn’t sound like this situation, and where do you draw the line?
zwei-You’ve NEVER interacted with me prior to that post, so HOW DARE YOU profess to know ANYTHING about me! You’re confusing passionate opinion with histrionics!
sisu-WORD! I can’t understand why people continue to delude themselves that life is fair.
My advice is for newscrasher to get some ear protection, because that helicopter s/he’s using to parent can be quite loud.
I have friends that have worked admissions for years at top universities. They laugh at some of the stupid shit that people think will get them into school. This idea of a “very influential person” pulling strings and getting an unrelated kid in a school is the kind of thing they laugh at.
Then there’s a part of this story no one else has commented on - this person is apparently so rich and influential that they are trolling craigslist for tickets to a concert. Clearly this person can still command the respect of all who see him if he needs to do that. I have a feeling the offer for football tickets is just that polite “oh, your kid likes the college huh? Maybe give me a call” and hoping they never will call or figuring they can beg off if that person does call for whatever reason. The idea that it was a serious invite to become best buds is… naive.
While you’re at it, call the Alumni Office of my school and tell them they didn’t send enough underlings.
Chop chop!
newcrasher: sometime ago you posted about those who cannot afford a medical procedure. what happen to your grant proposal to fund those who need medical procedures? Thanks for your sharing.
Just be cool. He’s going to smell the glom sweat if you start pushing your kid at him and back off. Take the invites he offers, but don’t make any promises or hints to your kid re outcomes and how he should behave with this guy with respect to currying his favor.
To answer kambuckta questions re influence. Elite US universities and colleges are meritocratic, but they are also money engines and they depend on a steady stream of applicants willing to pay relatively high cost tuitions. In some scenarios a recommend from a prestigious alum or board member can carry some weight, but it’s often much less than people think. On the flip side if it was entirely test driven a lot of children from historically disadvantaged social groups would never get in. Assuming the aboriginals occupy this place in your society are they shut out of elite higher education if they don’t test adequately?
Unless someone is directly donating a huge chunk of change to the college a kid is going to be riding mainly on his academic and social achievements.
I’m a higher education researcher, who happens to have degrees from some of them fancy Ivy League schools. I even worked in admissions for a spell.
You want to know the truth? No one connection, no one camp, no one letter of recommendation is a magic bullet. What people don’t realize, and most admissions officers won’t tell you, is that the supposed influence of important alumni, etc. is nowhere as impressive as one might think it is. Yes, big fish donors get attention, but quite frankly, you don’t get to be that guy (or gal) if you’re a boorish asshole who thinks you can will the university to do what you wish. Ever wonder why you don’t see Donald Trump plastered on university prospecti (?)? Because he’s precisely the sort of donor universities don’t want. I’m sure he gives to Wharton, but they are much more interested in people who understand the university calls the shots regarding who they will admit. I know many folks who work in development and they make it clear that part of the job is cultivating relationships with people with the same values as the university, not just people with fat checkbooks. One multimillionaire who constantly does things to embarrass or challenge academic freedom in the university is not worth a number of million- or many-thousandaires who are on the right page.
So newcrasher, this guy cannot simply slot your son into the university (I don’t think that’s what you think, but I sense some folks in the thread do). He is, however, well connected, and a series of connections might lead to opportunities that will benefit your son, regardless of where he ends up. I think the advice to just treat him like a friend, be sure to reciprocate (at least offer) and see where it goes - but don’t expect anything aside from giving your son a glimpse into how well heeled folks live and see the world.
even sven explains well how universities profit from the assumption that doing camps, affiliating oneself with the university, or “professional development” courses gives one an edge in admisssions. They’ll never say it does - and it likely doesn’t - but people still think it’s helpful to have it on the resume. I used to work in a professional development course at my alma mater. It was run by a very knowledgeable, bright administrator that essentially had the heavy hitting faculty come in and give their canned 90 minute speech (having sat in their courses, I could usually recite the lines verbatim). Now don’t get me wrong - these are world-renown pros who write books, have op-eds in the NYT and WSJ, etc. - so it’s good stuff. The administrator weaved these lectures together and people came to campus for two weeks at an exorbitant price. Profit! I don’t doubt that these were useful experiences, but it was a lot of money - almost a third of a semester’s tuition - but not an incredible amount of effort with the exception of the staff members’ work. The profs came in and gave their best lectures and left. The participants regularly listed this training session on their CVs (I’ve seen it on many when I sit on administrative hiring committees).
I say have fun with this guy, hopefully your son will enjoy some of the experiences he has, but don’t expect anything from it. If you actually like the guy and think he’s cool, you might actually become friends irrespective of his influence.
Another note - I direct an academic program at my university. Even I can’t will students into my program. We have an admissions committee, and while I have an incredible amount of influence, I have to be careful how I use it. My colleagues will ignore me or worse yet, I’ll gain a reputation of being more about connections than rigor. Nobody in an academic setting wants to be labeled that way. What I can do is typically weigh in on one aspect of an applicant’s admission case and put in a good word. But if the kid is a stiff and just has my endorsement? I drop the endorsement. I have very bright, very connected colleagues and they can smell bullshit a mile away.
I’m sorry for hurting your feelings, etv78 (truly; no sarcasm there), but we both post on a public message board*. Just because I am not actively posting in threads you’re participating in doesn’t mean I’m not reading them. I’ve read a lot of your posts and discussions with other posters, which, on a message board, is THE way to present yourself. My mental image/perception of you is the result of reading your posts.
- wtf iPhone? I’d understand wanting to autocorrect “messageboard” (one word) into “message board”, but you apparently want to autocorrect to “message oars”.
I don’t see any reason to view the VIP looking on craigslist for tickets as anything weird. Maybe the tickets sold out before he had a chance to get some. He might be connected in various places but not have connections at the concert venue. Or he could have used connections to get tickets, but decided it’s not worth it to throw his weight around for concert tickets that he could get through other methods, like craigslist.