# Metal Gear Solid 2: eh? (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 4, 2002, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metal-gear-solid-2-eh-spoilers/126937 "2002-09-04T10:08:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2002, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metal-gear-solid-2-eh-spoilers/126937/1 "2002-09-04T10:08:12Z")
I bought this game. I played it, and completed it. I haven’t got a bloody clue what that was about. I’ve been double-, triple- and quadruple-crossed so many times my ears are bleeding. Is it real, or a simulation? Who was on which side? After the twentieth painfully drawn-out cut-scene I was ready to hit the power switch. Could somebody explain the plot to me, as detailed as you like, and let me know what the hell it was? I’ve tried the various FAQs but they’re either too vague or assume you’ve played all of the other games in the series – I haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![nikjohns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/53a042/32.png) [@nikjohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nikjohns)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2002, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metal-gear-solid-2-eh-spoilers/126937/2 "2002-09-04T12:51:45Z")
I’m of the impression that the entire game is a simulation, training YOU to deal with combat. You know the whole discussion of VR training, and how it removes fear from combat situations? How the participant is in a combat situation, but they know that they cannot be hurt? How they are only fighting AI and reacting to that? That was you ( **Crusoe** ). You were “controlled” by the game. Forced into reactions and forced to fight against AI. You were the player of the game. > [@](#): > > During the game, Kojima makes a loop to engulf the player. The one that has gone through the VR training in Shadow Moses; the one that executed everything as told; the one that has been “talking” to an AI and interpreting the recorded voices as if spoken by a person; the one who thought the Colonel was “acting a bit strange, but it must be because Raiden is a rookie”, although has never met the Colonel in person; the one whose name appears on Raiden’s dog tag at the end… This is clearly implied while running naked on New York’s 52nd Street… “Raiden, turn the game console off right now! … Don’t worry, it’s a game! It’s a game just like usual. You’ll ruin your eyes playing so close to the TV.”. Those are clear messages to the player, as well as the screen that reads “Fission Mailed”, simulating a screwed up GAME OVER, while the game continues in the small overlay. These are clear signs of a higher level controlling the “reality” that the game simulation is, which is being affected by the virus. So you see, Raiden was not being controlled. You were. [Metal Gear Solid 2 Ending analysis](http://junkerhq.net/CS/) - Rose and the Colonel were both AI, as were the Patriots. But of course, you already knew this on a higher level - they are both _controlled by your PS2_. Confused? Me too. - n ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2002, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metal-gear-solid-2-eh-spoilers/126937/3 "2002-09-04T12:55:30Z")
I did wonder. It seemed a bit contrived and a bit laboured if this was the intention – oh _wow_, the game is designed to make me realise _I’m_ being manipulated…! A nice idea, but with so many other twists it did slightly ruin it for me - a game that reminds you that it’s only a game seems a little, well, self-defeating. ---
**Author:** ![nikjohns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/53a042/32.png) [@nikjohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nikjohns)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2002, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metal-gear-solid-2-eh-spoilers/126937/4 "2002-09-04T13:06:44Z")
But it brings the plot from the game into the Real World… i.e. you are being trained (through the game) with the intention of becomming a better soldier. From playing MGS2, do you feel more or less able to participate in a combat situation? I rest my case 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2002, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metal-gear-solid-2-eh-spoilers/126937/5 "2002-09-04T13:10:06Z")
Heh. Put me in front of a giant missile-firing robot with an electric sword and I’ll let Konami know just how realistic it was… ---
**Author:** ![nikjohns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/53a042/32.png) [@nikjohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nikjohns)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2002, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metal-gear-solid-2-eh-spoilers/126937/6 "2002-09-04T13:15:53Z")
Touche ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2002, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metal-gear-solid-2-eh-spoilers/126937/7 "2002-09-05T05:57:54Z")
Are you sure Rose was an AI too? Didn’t Jack actually meet her in person? (And DAMN Kojima for that whole “Jack and Rose” thing…groan…) I loved the way this game played, but I think the story suffered a lot in the translation. I’m told that it played much better in Japan. Personally, I fault the game for doing the same thing the X-Files did–raise more questions than it answered. I guess we’ll have to wait until MGS3 to find out who the Patriots really are and the 10 million other loose ends they left. I guess to sum up the plot it would be “people are easily manipulated, and said manipulation is necessary and beneficial, no matter how much we object.” Feh. I was super-psyched for this game, but after I beat it and got GTAIII, I lost almost all interest in it. And Meryl was way cooler than Emma.