# Meth addicts with kids **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2006, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399 "2006-09-04T14:34:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399/141 "2006-09-05T14:30:00Z")
And while you can’t help being gay, you could choose to not have sex with people of your own gender and live a celebate lifestyle for the sake of your children. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399/142 "2006-09-05T14:33:14Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Actually, no, I wouldn’t say those are great choices either. [/QUOTE] Yes, but I don’t somehow see you going off about how race car drivers are DELUSIONAL if they don’t take into consideration how DEVASTATED their children will be if they die. Of course, no one’s started a thread about “Race Car Drivers with Kids,” so you haven’t had the opportunity to blow your special brand of hysteria all over that thread. I don’t know what you picture when you think “swinger,” but I really don’t think it has much basis in reality. For instance, I think it’s very rare for anyone’s mother to be frequently double-penetrated by little league coaches, and even if she was, I really don’t think the kids would find out. Unless you are assuming that “parents who like to fuck others” = “parents who have no idea how to be discreet” or “parents who don’t think about their kids AT ALL.” It’s been my experience that people who aren’t swingers and who have not had any friends who are swingers rarely have any idea what they’re talking about when it comes to the morality of swingers. _cough_ > [@](#): > > It’s just been my experience that people who don’t have kids rarely have any idea what they’re talking about when it comes to parenting issues. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399/143 "2006-09-05T14:38:22Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] But that’s not what you said, is it? You said she had no business discussing it. Isn’t that a bit of an _ad hominum_ attack? [/quote] To be precise, I said. “you should stay out” of parenting discussions. You can read that as some kind of absolutist declaration as to what people should or should not be _allowed_ to do, but to me is what just a bit of petulant advice. This IS the Pit, after all. > [@](#): > > Serious question. Are there any other discussions, besides those about parenting, that folks should stay out of if they do not have direct experience? Absolutely. I tend to place critiques of soldiers on battlefields pretty high on that list, for example. > [@](#): > > 100% agreement. The word ‘hobby’ might be a bad choice. How about something stronger, like “you should place their emotional needs above yours.” Yes. At least ahead of pursuits that fall short of real needs. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399/144 "2006-09-05T14:39:58Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] The poly posters in these threads specifically said it was anything but superficial. Does that change your stance on the issue? [/QUOTE] That depends on how you define “poly.” **WhyNot** isn’t talling about poly relationships, just sexual encounters. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399/145 "2006-09-05T14:45:37Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] So again, then, Dio, if this is just a matter of “the child’s emotional needs”, how can you excuse the huge list of other things that might cause a child to have social trouble or emotional distress? Divorce, for instance, is an example from the list which you can’t excuse away by saying it’s something the parent can’t help, like being gay. Are you also against divorce? [/QUOTE] I would disagree that divorce is a choice. At least, I would disagree that a marriage can be held together if there’s no love and that it’s a worse choice for parents to stay together in those circumstances than to end it. Divorce is a solution to an existing problem, not the creation of a new problem. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399/146 "2006-09-05T14:46:44Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] That depends on how you define “poly.” **WhyNot** isn’t talling about poly relationships, just sexual encounters. [/QUOTE] huh? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399/147 "2006-09-05T14:48:52Z")
[QUOTE=Dangerosa] And while you can’t help being gay, you could choose to not have sex with people of your own gender and live a celebate lifestyle for the sake of your children. [/QUOTE] Having a life partner is an emotional need for most people and it doesn’t have to create a situation where a child is deceived about who’s really in his “family” and who isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399/148 "2006-09-05T14:50:58Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I would disagree that divorce is a choice. At least, I would disagree that a marriage can be held together if there’s no love and that it’s a worse choice for parents to stay together in those circumstances than to end it. Divorce is a solution to an existing problem, not the creation of a new problem. [/QUOTE] You must be DELUSIONAL if you think any of that makes any difference when the POOR KIDS are traumatized for life. How do you think they’ll feel when they find out Mommy and Daddy don’t love them enough to stay together, huh? How can you excuse that emotional trauma! The parents are clearly just being selfish. Dio, why do you condone society’s potential reaction in this case if you don’t have a moral issue with it? Society clearly condemns many other voluntary behaviors, but because you don’t have a problem with them, you don’t care about that. You have yet to answer to this point, and I think it’s because you can’t. Once again, you have talked yourself into a corner. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399/149 "2006-09-05T14:51:05Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] huh? [/QUOTE] You said you don’t live with these people. It didn’t sound like you were describing a relationship with clearly defined partners whose roles were understood by your children. It sounded like you just said you were sometimes banging your “friends.” I don’t call that “poly,” I call that swinging. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399/150 "2006-09-05T14:55:39Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Having a life partner is an emotional need for most people and it doesn’t have to create a situation where a child is deceived about who’s really in his “family” and who isn’t. [/QUOTE] Okay, so in a “swinging” situation, who is being introduced as a member of the child’s “family?” Isn’t that only poly situations? Didn’t you insist that you were only talking about swinging? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399/151 "2006-09-05T14:58:22Z")
[QUOTE=Hamadryad] Yes, but I don’t somehow see you going off about how race car drivers are DELUSIONAL if they don’t take into consideration how DEVASTATED their children will be if they die. Of course, no one’s started a thread about “Race Car Drivers with Kids,” so you haven’t had the opportunity to blow your special brand of hysteria all over that thread. [/quote] Fine. If there are race car drivers who don’t think their children could potentially be devastated by a fatal accident then they ARE delusional. I don’t think many of them are in denial about that, though. > [@](#): > > I don’t know what you picture when you think “swinger,” but I really don’t think it has much basis in reality. For instance, I think it’s very rare for anyone’s mother to be frequently double-penetrated by little league coaches, and even if she was, I really don’t think the kids would find out. Even hypothetically, do you think that’s something which could hurt a kid emotionally? > [@](#): > > Unless you are assuming that “parents who like to fuck others” = “parents who have no idea how to be discreet” or “parents who don’t think about their kids AT ALL.” I’m not saying they aren’t discreet, or that any harm will come if the kids don’t find out (at least if they don’t find out while they’re still kids). I’m saying it can’t be assumed that they won’t find out _accidentally_ and that such an eventuality has to be taken into consideration. > [@](#): > > It’s been my experience that people who aren’t swingers and who have not had any friends who are swingers rarely have any idea what they’re talking about when it comes to the morality of swingers. > > _cough_ I’ve never shot heroin either. That doesn’t mean I can’t say that a heroin habit would be a shitty choice for me as a father. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399/152 "2006-09-05T15:02:33Z")
[QUOTE=Hamadryad] Okay, so in a “swinging” situation, who is being introduced as a member of the child’s “family?” [/quote] Nobody, that’s my point. > [@](#): > > Isn’t that only poly situations? Yes. In a true poly situation the kid already knows who’s who and isn’t going to be in for a nasty shock if he finds out that people are involved in this paradigm without his knowledge. Maybe even people who are complete strangers to him. > [@](#): > > Didn’t you insist that you were only talking about swinging? I am. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399/153 "2006-09-05T15:03:31Z")
OMG! The very idea that a parent could have had sex with a COMPLETE STRANGER!!! Still not seeing the lack of moral outrage, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399/154 "2006-09-05T15:08:47Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] You must be DELUSIONAL if you think any of that makes any difference when the POOR KIDS are traumatized for life. How do you think they’ll feel when they find out Mommy and Daddy don’t love them enough to stay together, huh? How can you excuse that emotional trauma! The parents are clearly just being selfish. [/quote] Personally, I was OVERJOYED when my parents split up. It was nothing but a relief after all the fighting. It was no trauma at all and I think that very few kids actually think they’re parents get divorced because they didn’t love their kids. Any decent parents would make it clear to the kids that it wasn’t their fault anyway. Divorce really isn’t that big of a deal anymore. I’ve never met a single person who has ever said they felt any personal shame or culpability about their parents’ divorce. This is a bit of a strawman. > [@](#): > > Dio, why do you condone society’s potential reaction in this case if you don’t have a moral issue with it? Society clearly condemns many other voluntary behaviors, but because you don’t have a problem with them, you don’t care about that. You have yet to answer to this point, and I think it’s because you can’t. Once again, you have talked yourself into a corner. I have no idea what you’re talking about. What societal “moral” reaction have I condoned? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399/155 "2006-09-05T15:09:04Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] You said you don’t live with these people. It didn’t sound like you were describing a relationship with clearly defined partners whose roles were understood by your children. It sounded like you just said you were sometimes banging your “friends.” I don’t call that “poly,” I call that swinging. [/QUOTE] Well, you’re certainly allowed to use words with whatever definitions you’d like them to have, but it’s generally best, if not using the standard definitions, or if you don’t agree with the [definitions as previously stated in the same thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7744312&postcount=45) to make that clear before continuing your argument. I am clearly and most definitely in the second definition: ““open marriages”, with two people making a conventional dyad, committed primarily to one another, who also go on dates with other people. These other relationships may be long term or short term, but involve more than just sex. They involve companionship, shared interests, friendship - they involve everything that monogomous peoples’ boyfriends and girfriends do.” I am most certainly not, have never been, nor am I interested in being a swinger according to the most widely accepted definition, and the one given earlier: ““swingers”, often complete with clubs, who are looking for short-term generally anonymous sex without relationships. Swingers are generally secretive about their lifestyle, and often present a monogomous front to acquaintances. Or not.” A few more definitions of “swinger”: From [Swinger - definition of swinger by The Free Dictionary](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/swinger) > [@](#): > > 1. Slang > a. A person who actively seeks excitement and moves with the latest trends. > b. A person who engages freely in promiscuous sex. > c. A member of a couple, especially a married couple, who exchanges sexual partners. From [http://dict.die.net/swinger/](http://dict.die.net/swinger/) > [@](#): > > 2: a person who engages freely in promiscuous sex [syn: tramp] From the very, very very \*\*not \*\*worksafe (so I’m not linking to it) “Swingers Society”: > [@](#): > > Swinging is, "social and sexual intercourse with someone other than your mate, boyfriend or girlfriend, excepting the traditional one-on-one dating. > > Swinging is not the same as swapping, because lots of swingers (men and women) are still single, so no need to swap. A good definition might perhaps be “recreational sex”. In summary, swinging is for (mostly) heterosexual people who enjoy sex for its own sake, as opposed to purely within one relationship. Sex as a hobby. None of those describe my lifestyle one bit. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399/156 "2006-09-05T15:10:20Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] OMG! The very idea that a parent could have had sex with a COMPLETE STRANGER!!! Still not seeing the lack of moral outrage, dude. [/QUOTE] It’s a question of priorities, not morality. I’ll simplify it for you. Don’t lie to your children. Don’t lead them to believe their family is something it isn’t. How about that? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399/157 "2006-09-05T15:15:59Z")
**WhyNot** , I see no substantive difference between how any of those definitions would emotionally affect children. The issue is that there is still a potential for them to find out they’re family is not what they’ve always thought it was. If you don’t think that can have any affect on their trust or sense of familial security then I don’t know what to tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399/158 "2006-09-05T15:17:59Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It’s a question of priorities, not morality. I’ll simplify it for you. Don’t lie to your children. Don’t lead them to believe their family is something it isn’t. How about that? [/QUOTE] Well, it certainly does fit your M.O. of changing your position whenever we reach a new page of comments or so. Which is it: 1. It’s not wrong, it’s just that the kids will feel bad because other people think it’s wrong. 2. It is wrong, but only if you’re a parent. 3. It’s not wrong, it’s just wrong to hide it, unlike all other sexual activities. You’ve claimed all of the above as your sole position so far. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399/159 "2006-09-05T15:23:58Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] That depends on how you define “poly.” **WhyNot** isn’t talling about poly relationships, just sexual encounters. [/QUOTE] That’s now how I read it at all, though plenty of people have sex with more than one person throughout their lifetimes. Not that big a deal. WhyNot, your experience/involvement with poly relationships: strictly sex or is it a deeper relationship? Parents? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399/160 "2006-09-05T15:24:33Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] Well, it certainly does fit your M.O. of changing your position whenever we reach a new page of comments or so. Which is it: [/quote] My position has been the same from my firts fucking post. This issue is not miltiple partners but _secret_ partners that the kids don’t know about. 1. It’s not wrong, it’s just that the kids will feel bad because other people think it’s wrong. 2. It is wrong, but only if you’re a parent. 3. It’s not wrong, it’s just wrong to hide it, unlike all other sexual activities. You’ve claimed all of the above as your sole position so far. [/QUOTE] The answer is kind of number three but my issue is about hiding _partners_, not hiding sex. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-addicts-with-kids/371399.md?page=9)