# Meth and Sudafed..policy stupidity in the land of corn. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 20, 2005, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475 "2005-09-20T02:06:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475/41 "2005-09-20T16:20:32Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > They took the good stuff (phenylpropanolamine, common trade name: Entex) off the market about 5 years ago, more’s the pity. That shit turned me psycho. I donate to NPR because of a story on it 20 years ago that probably saved my life. > [@](#): > > But if your allergies are that bad, try asking your doc about nasal steroids, loratadine… Flonase, a nasal steroid, works some but for maximum allergy satisfaction I recommend loratadine, the generic and now OTC drug formerly known as Claritin. It’s a quarter a pill but the pill lasts 24 hours and works so well I’m almost considering getting a cat. As an aside, when Claritin went OTC but was still extra expensive my doc asked if I wanted a scrip for Clarinex. “What’s the difference?” “Instead of lasting 24 hours it lasts 26 hours.” “Is that all? Will they do ANYTHING to keep their patent going?” “Yeah and yeah, but it might be cheaper with your prescription coverage.” ---
**Author:** ![YWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/6f9a4e/32.png) [@YWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWalker)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475/42 "2005-09-20T16:48:57Z")
> [@Maus Magill](#): > > I’ve only seen this in adult doses. Is there a children’s version available? Phenylephrine is what’s in [Sudafed PE.](http://www.sudafed.com/faq.html). Since I can’t take Sudafed because it tends to cause trigger arryhythmia in me, I asked the pharmacist for an alternative, and she suggested Sudafed PE. It didn’t do a damned thing at all for me, unfortunately. [sub]But that Entex sure was good stuff. Not only a decent decongestant, but a mild bronchodilator to boot. [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475/43 "2005-09-20T17:15:30Z")
\*::: ponders the irony of a bunch of people who call themselves “Dopers” complaining about not being about to buy OTC drugs because of meth users ::: \* 😉 Anyway, you can’t buy Sudafed off the shelf here anymore, either. It’s all kept behind the pharmacy counter. I needed something the other day (I was at Safeway), and it was before the pharmacy opened. I couldn’t find anyone to help me, basically said the hell with it and bought Benadryl Allergy instead. It works just was well for my allergies. YMMV, of course. - ::: goes back to praying to the gods of Winter. ::: \* Please! An early frost! Kill all the green growing shit! ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475/44 "2005-09-20T17:34:13Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Flonase, a nasal steroid, works some but for maximum allergy satisfaction I recommend loratadine, the generic and now OTC drug formerly known as Claritin. It’s a quarter a pill but the pill lasts 24 hours and works so well I’m almost considering getting a cat. A quarter a pill? Where do you live and can I move there? It’s $1 a pill here, and I had to stop taking it because it got so expensive. Much more expensive than when it was prescription. (and I haven’t had health insurance in years). ---
**Author:** ![Electronic\_Chaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Electronic\_Chaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electronic_Chaos)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475/45 "2005-09-20T17:56:10Z")
> [@FilmGeek](#): > > A quarter a pill? Where do you live and can I move there? It’s $1 a pill here, and I had to stop taking it because it got so expensive. Much more expensive than when it was prescription. (and I haven’t had health insurance in years). [Walgreens online seems to have it fairly cheap.](http://www.walgreens.com/search/search_results.jsp?term=loratadine§ion=A&x=0&y=0) And outlawing psuedophedrine is just going to mean finding another precursor. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475/46 "2005-09-20T17:57:28Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Just wait until they make it a DEA-controlled substance! > > It’s a shitty drug anyway. They took the good stuff (phenylpropanolamine, common trade name: Entex) off the market about 5 years ago, more’s the pity. > > But if your allergies are that bad, try asking your doc about nasal steroids, loratadine, or even Accolate or Singulair. Those actually deal with the allergic response, not just the symptoms (which is all pseudoephedrine does). I have to have both loratadine and pseudophedrine, I’m prone to ear/sinus/respiratory infections if I don’t keep my sinuses drained. In order to get my pseudophedrine this month I did have to sign a register and show photo ID, and pay for it at the pharmacy counter. At least I was able to get the decongestant that keeps me well, I feel for the parents who only want a liquid decongestant for their child though. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475/47 "2005-09-20T18:33:37Z")
> [@Silentgoldfish](#): > > What a lovely story! > > But so the fuck what? It’s well known that meth is addictive, it’s pretty much impossible to go into it with your eyes shut so why should I be inconvenienced by idiots like her that seem to think they’re above chemical addiction? Meth is HUGE among high school students. At my high school, it was sold pretty much openly in the halls and probably 1/3 of the people I knew were starting a pretty serious addiction. It’s especially popular among high school girls because when they start, they lose weight and their grades go up. They get nothing but positive reinforcement from their parents, teachers, and friends for months. Only they know the real cause behind it. It’s pretty common for older men to court young, naive, unpopular girls in to addictions. They benefit from a steady customer and favors when allowences run out. I’ve seen it happen over and over again. As for moonsuits- there is more than Sudafed in meth. The other chemicals are pretty easy to buy in bulk from vet supply stores and chemical warehouses. Pseudephedrine is easy to target because it’s the only one nobody would ever need mass quantities of for legit purposes. I think it’s red phosphate thats the biggest danger. Making meth requires a lot of chemical reactions- including at least one exothermic reaction that is easy to lose control of (i.e. blow up) and a lot of nasty byproducts. This is being done by amature chemists with no interest in protecting the environment or not poisening the people around them. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475/48 "2005-09-20T18:38:05Z")
I note from Yahoo! Maps that Davenport, IA is about a half-hour drive from Ease Moline, IL (different state, y’see). Anybody know about how difficult the hoops are to jump through in Illinois? ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475/49 "2005-09-20T18:56:43Z")
It’s erratic here in the Empire State–in more drug-prone or active NYC neighborhoods (not necessarily the poorest!) Sudafed et al are sold only by the pharmacist. I’ve seen it sold like that in the Central Bronx and, oddly enough, all the drugstores in and around Grand Central Station. OTOH, I bought a bunch at the A&P in Yonkers the other day right from the shelf (my brother has doggies I’m allergic too) and can get it at the Duane Reade here in the northern Bronx with no problems. ---
**Author:** ![ScoobyTX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@ScoobyTX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ScoobyTX)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475/50 "2005-09-20T19:04:47Z")
> [@FilmGeek](#): > > A quarter a pill? Where do you live and can I move there? It’s $1 a pill here, and I had to stop taking it because it got so expensive. Much more expensive than when it was prescription. (and I haven’t had health insurance in years). I get my loratidine at Sam’s- a two pack of 90 count bottles (180 pills total- a 6 month supply) costs about $15- or less than $0.09 per pill. I take it daily, except for the 3-4 weeks per year when there’s nothing I’m allergic to in the air . ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475/51 "2005-09-20T19:21:37Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > As for moonsuits- there is more than Sudafed in meth. The other chemicals are pretty easy to buy in bulk from vet supply stores and chemical warehouses. Pseudephedrine is easy to target because it’s the only one nobody would ever need mass quantities of for legit purposes. I think it’s red phosphate thats the biggest danger. Wouldn’t it be a lot easier to control the supply of say, red phosphate? In my town of 20k people, I bet I can buy pseudephedrine-containing OTC meds in at least 15 places (or at least I could, before all these new regulations). Why not try to control the hazardous, already-limited supply ingrediants? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475/52 "2005-09-20T19:32:36Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > I think we need to worry less about drugs the general public is on and worry MORE about what the fuck our state lawmakers are smoking. Works for me. _grabs her allergy meds_… yup, the clogged-nose syrup has pseudoephedrin. By prescription only, which means I pay 60% of the price and the other 40% is prepaid (Spanish Social Security pays it; since they take it from my taxes, it’s not “free” but “prepaid”). You know, every time someone here in Spain pities me for having had to leave “that nice job in the States”, all I have to do is explain the US medical system for a bit and that cuts through the pity chop-chop. Drug use is related directly to self-esteem and values. Self-esteem or lack thereof and your value system are acquired through education (from school, parents, tv, etc.) The same value-systems that leave politics and the money that comes with them in the hands of the vultures, slugs and vampires happens to make people a good target for dependencies of other kinds; for example, drugs. Now excuse me while I go wash my mouth for insulting slugs, vultures and vampires… ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475/53 "2005-09-20T20:12:35Z")
> [@Tastes of Chocolate](#): > > Wouldn’t it be a lot easier to control the supply of say, red phosphate? Nah, it’s pretty ubiquitous. Even if they outlawed safety matches, cookers would just switch to methods that used phosphates from fertilizer towards the same end. Chemicals are everywhere, and the most specialized chemical used to manufacture meth is pseudoephedrine. If if pseudoephedrine were outlawed altogether, people would just start manufacturing _it_ clandestinely. There’s no winning by trying to control the precursors – it’s stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475/54 "2005-09-20T20:18:51Z")
I don’t know why they bother restricting pseudoephedrine when you can still buy straight-up ephedrine at gas stations. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475/55 "2005-09-20T20:47:14Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I note from Yahoo! Maps that Davenport, IA is about a half-hour drive from Ease Moline, IL (different state, y’see). Anybody know about how difficult the hoops are to jump through in Illinois? Actually…thats what I ended up doing. I bought two bottles of Simply Stuffy in a Moline Walgreens pharmacy (it was the only 2 bottles they had…and they probably won’t get more). I felt like Smokey and the Bandit driving across the I-74 bridge with my Simply Stuffy. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475/56 "2005-09-20T21:10:22Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Well, phenylephrine should still be available OTC. Some people find that as helpful as pseudoephedrine. Phenylephrine is available as a veterinary drug. I prescribe it daily, usually for its side effect of increased urinary outflow resistance. ---
**Author:** ![caveman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caveman/32/7242_2.png) [@caveman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caveman)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475/57 "2005-09-20T21:18:55Z")
> [@ScoobyTX](#): > > I get my loratidine at Sam’s- a two pack of 90 count bottles (180 pills total- a 6 month supply) costs about $15- or less than $0.09 per pill. I take it daily, except for the 3-4 weeks per year when there’s nothing I’m allergic to in the air . I do this exact thing; it’s a wonder we’ve not collided in the aisle yet! ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475/58 "2005-09-20T21:36:24Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > If if pseudoephedrine were outlawed altogether, people would just start manufacturing _it_ clandestinely. There’s no winning by trying to control the precursors – it’s stupid. Ah but the law _has_ had its intended effect, such that there are fewer meth labs in states that have passed the law, and meth users are relying more on Mexican imports. [Cite](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:IrjvMr8hm2AJ:www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/08/17/meth.makers.ap/) > [@](#): > > Oklahoma’s meth lab seizures have fallen 90 percent since April 2004, when it became the first state to ban over-the-counter sales of everyday cold and allergy medications that can be converted into methamphetamine in makeshift labs. > > But at the same time, seizures of smokeable Mexican meth known as “crystal ice” rose nearly fivefold, from 384 cases in the 15 months before the law to 1,875 since. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475/59 "2005-09-20T21:47:25Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > As for moonsuits- there is more than Sudafed in meth. The other chemicals are pretty easy to buy in bulk from vet supply stores and chemical warehouses. Pseudephedrine is easy to target because it’s the only one nobody would ever need mass quantities of for legit purposes. I think it’s red phosphate thats the biggest danger. Making meth requires a lot of chemical reactions- including at least one exothermic reaction that is easy to lose control of (i.e. blow up) and a lot of nasty byproducts. This is being done by amature chemists with no interest in protecting the environment or not poisening the people around them. Slight nitpick, but I believe it’s red phosphorous that was used in one meth recipe. I think trouble getting it was one of the main reasons for the shift towards anhydrous ammonia-based meth (they call it Nazi Meth here). Around here, anhydrous ammonia is the big item to get other than the pseudoephedrine. The paper always lists arrests for anhydrous ammonia theft and/or transportation. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475/60 "2005-09-20T22:08:43Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > Ah but the law _has_ had its intended effect, such that there are fewer meth labs in states that have passed the law, and meth users are relying more on Mexican imports. [Cite](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:IrjvMr8hm2AJ:www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/08/17/meth.makers.ap/) Your cite does not support the assertion. There are less meth labs being busted in those states. I’ll bet my eye teeth that there are actually _more_ meth “labs” now – it’s just further underground and scaled way down. Who gets busted? The organized criminals that are making huge amounts for distribution, constantly cranking out stinky fumes. Smaller scale production is much harder to detect, unless something goes wrong. Even with the law, people can still easily acquire the precursors to make small batch cooks. A single person can legally acquire enough medication to support a habit, if they cook their dope themselves. Two boxes is enough for a small cook. Not hard to get, and enough to make a few grams of speed, which’ll keep a tweaker up for a pretty long time. Measuring big busts gives you an idea of what organized crime is doing – it doesn’t tell you squat about how much meth is actually being cooked and used. This law makes it less practical to have large, centralized distribution networks. It shifts things onto smaller scale operations that make actually increase the number of dangerous cooks in close proximity to other citizens. The gangs may be importing their stuff in order to keep their fingers in the pie, but you’ll also see more cookers in kitchens, using mason jars and crap. It’s not effective – it just pushes the dirt around. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meth-and-sudafed-policy-stupidity-in-the-land-of-corn/322475.md?page=4)