# Methinks the Catholic Church doth protest too much (DaVinciCode) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 16, 2006, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987 "2006-05-16T15:35:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/21 "2006-05-16T22:29:03Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > I know three people who belive this story is true. They did before the DaVinci Code came out, though. Well, FWIW, to be totally honest I happen to believe that Jesus was married. I find it very difficult to believe that in that location and era that a purportedly respectable son of a carpenter [who was himself probably also a carpenter] would _not_ have been married at the socially and legally acceptable time in his life when all his contemporaries were getting married. The sacrement of marriage was just one of those things that happened, gay straight or neutral if you wanted to be considered part of society. Yes there were those in the lunatic fringe who went out into teh desert and did wacky crap, but the average joe[sephus] did what was accepted. Did he have kids? Not a freaking clue. Does it matter? Not in the least. I don’t think his having a family would change things for me - a person can be holy with a dozen kids crawling around. I would prefer to think of Jesus as simply a man with a love for humanity that was willing to be a symbol - the whole virgin birth and diety crap doesnt interest me, his teachings do. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/22 "2006-05-16T23:09:52Z")
For those who know, can you spoil this for me? What is the significance of the alleged descendents of Jesus? Are they supposed to be semi-divine or is it just a matter of keeping them hidden from the world? If the former, then how much “God DNA” is there going to be left at this point (~80 generations removed from the time of Jesus)? Basically none, is probably the best answer. I hope the idea isn’t that they’ve been inbred all these years… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/23 "2006-05-16T23:14:39Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Well, FWIW, to be totally honest I happen to believe that Jesus was married. I find it very difficult to believe that in that location and era that a purportedly respectable son of a carpenter [who was himself probably also a carpenter] would _not_ have been married at the socially and legally acceptable time in his life when all his contemporaries were getting married. This certainly wasn’t universal in Jewish communities of the Roman Empire, though. For example, at least one group of the [Essenes is reported to have practiced celibacy](http://www.pupress.princeton.edu/chapters/s7075.html). Semi-nomadic radical reformers, such as Jesus and his disciples, may well have been perceived as having a different social role from sedentary tradesmen and craftsmen. > [@](#): > > Although he had little to say about marriage, Jesus himself, it appears, rejected the value of family and oikos [household]. > > “You must not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man will find his enemies under his own roof. No one is worthy of me who cares more for father or mother than for me; no one is worthy of me who cares more for son or daughter; no one is worthy of me who does not take up his cross and follow me.” > > Elsewhere Jesus is reported to have counseled a man to leave his dead father unburied in order to follow him: “Leave the dead to bury their dead; you must go and announce the kingdom of God.” For Jesus, the “family” are those who do his will. Where Jesus does evoke the image of marriage, the “marriage” is between himself (the groom) and those who anticipate the kingdom of God. Untangling Jesus’ original words from those of the Gospel writers is, of course, a notorious problem. Gerd Theissen has convincingly argued that the synoptic Gospels reflect communities that eschewed social respectability, and hence the establishment of households; they lived in anticipation of Jesus’ imminent return. Among the synoptic Gospel writers, Luke rejects the value of the oikos most stridently. Yet here these writers appear to be following Jesus’ own trajectory. Whatever else Jesus was and said, he preached that the kingdom of God was now. Marriage was at best irrelevant, and households and family networks hindered both the individual who wished to join God’s kingdom as well as the establishment of the new social order. ---
**Author:** ![Tripwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tripwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripwire)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/24 "2006-05-17T00:19:27Z")
Actually, John Mace the story kind of peters out by the time we actually get to whether anything is of significance. I can’t even really remember what happens at the end, after defeating the bad-guy, who is sort of a conspiracy of one without greater significance. They hang around some weird ruins and talk to some lady about symbols and some secret place we never see. But nothing much happens. I think the main character implicitly is having sex with the other main character. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/25 "2006-05-17T00:49:21Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > I’d say they have a valid concern on this point. The Church has built an empire based _specifically_ on man’s inability to identify fiction. As has the Republican Party. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/26 "2006-05-17T01:38:05Z")
> [@Tripwire](#): > > “the “story” was already long since debunked” > > How you debunk anything about the life of a person we know next to nothing about in a historical sense? Jesus could have had 80 gay lovers and preached death to all shellfish for all we know. Noooooooo! What about the lobsters! Won’t anyone think about the lobsters! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/27 "2006-05-17T01:40:25Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > For those who know, can you spoil this for me? What is the significance of the alleged descendents of Jesus? Are they supposed to be semi-divine or is it just a matter of keeping them hidden from the world? If the former, then how much “God DNA” is there going to be left at this point (~80 generations removed from the time of Jesus)? Basically none, is probably the best answer. I hope the idea isn’t that they’ve been inbred all these years… :eek: Remember that snotty brat in grade school? The one who never studied but always knew the answers? God power. Hush, it’s a secret. ROFL ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/28 "2006-05-17T01:58:05Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > For those who know, can you spoil this for me? What is the significance of the alleged descendents of Jesus? Are they supposed to be semi-divine or is it just a matter of keeping them hidden from the world? If the former, then how much “God DNA” is there going to be left at this point (~80 generations removed from the time of Jesus)? Basically none, is probably the best answer. I hope the idea isn’t that they’ve been inbred all these years… :eek: The desendents of Jesus are supposed to be the Meroviginian (sp?) dynasty that spawned a number of royal families in Europe (which would make them rather inbred I guess). The actual desendents aren’t that important to the plot of the book (I think some of the characters end up being part of the bloodline, but maybe I’m misremembering), just the fact that there were such decendents and that Jesus had a wife. There is a cache of texts and relics that prove this fact, which are what the various conspiracies in the Da Vinci Code are trying to protect/reveal/hide/ In anycase, as has been already mentioned, The Da Vinci Code is rather full of crap, and I can’t blame the Catholic Church for giving their side of the story. NPR had a priest on giving a very nice and good natured response, pointing out many of the flaws in the theories. But the overthetop response quoted in the OP is stupid, not only because it doesn’t convince anybody, but that it makes the Church look like its full of the same hotblooded reactionary weirdos with something to hide that Dan Brown describes in his book. On the other hand, considering the history of Catholic literary critisicm, I guess even the overthetop idiocy is a pretty measured response. At least Dan Brown isn’t being invited to a cookout in St Pete’s square. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/29 "2006-05-17T02:23:51Z")
> [@Malodorous](#): > > At least Dan Brown isn’t being invited to a cookout in St Pete’s square. Hey! We’ve never had a cookout at St. Pete’s. We’ve always managed to keep the fires outside the Vatican gates: Giordano at Campo de’ Fiore, Savanarola up in Florence, Jan Hus in Constance, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/30 "2006-05-17T02:45:25Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > We’ve never had a cookout at St. Pete’s. We’ve always managed to keep the fires outside the Vatican gates: Giordano at Campo de’ Fiore, Savanarola up in Florence, Jan Hus in Constance, etc. Heh, when I typed that, I thought to myself “I betcha someone is gonna come along and tell me no one was ever burned in St Pete’s square” Then I thought “nope, I’m pretty sure Giordano Bruno was burned at St Pete’s square, I should be safe”. Now I look it up, and it turns out you’re right. They even have a statue at the real location. Doh! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/31 "2006-05-17T03:13:10Z")
> [@Tripwire](#): > > “the “story” was already long since debunked” > > How you debunk anything about the life of a person we know next to nothing about in a historical sense? Jesus could have had 80 gay lovers and preached death to all shellfish for all we know. Oh, c’mon. 80 gay lovers? Hogwash! Everyone knows there were only 12. ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/32 "2006-05-17T03:15:27Z")
So the Church is more upset about the idea that Jesus actually might have had relations with an actual woman than about the fact that they have a problem with priests having relations with children? The Church is more upset about the idea od prophylaxis as a method of attenuating the incidence of HIV, and about population planning/litter size limits as a method of reducing poverty? Nice selective outrage, Catholic Church, gotta love these people. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/33 "2006-05-17T04:17:59Z")
I need to correect the following: > [@tomndebb](#): > > they are the plaintive calls from a relatively few numbers of Italian bishops (and one or two of their American followers) who have always rushed to the barriers whenever they have perceived the mildest attacks on the church; The latest round of shrieking has emanated from a Nigerian, Francis Cardinal Arinze. OTOH, he is pretty much shaped in the mold of the Italian prelates, feeling a need to swing the heavy hammer of indignation (backed by a feeling of authoritarian righteousness) whenever he feels he or his have been “attacked.” ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/34 "2006-05-17T04:21:15Z")
I’ve thought about protesting this novel. Not on any religious grounds, but just because it’s a badly written load of crap and I’m sick of the Da Vinci Code displays at all the bookstores. Christ, I saw one the other day called “The Da Vinci Code Diet,” and it wasn’t even a parody. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/35 "2006-05-17T04:21:52Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Noooooooo! What about the lobsters! Won’t anyone think about the lobsters! Lobsters are crustacians … and _very_ good with butter … 😃 ---
**Author:** ![beebee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47774/32.png) [@beebee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beebee)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/36 "2006-05-17T06:17:30Z")
i am about 1/4 through the book. first thing that bothers me is, prince charles & siblings. did Jesus have a bad case of the uglies? second is - did this guy do any actual research? albinos can barely see 2 feet in front of their face. would you hire a legaly blind hit-man? i should think stephen hawking would be a better choice - he could run them down with his wheelchair. i don’t think i’ll be seeing the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/37 "2006-05-17T08:50:28Z")
[But the Vatican Astronomer said such “nice” things about Creationism!](http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=674042006) > [@](#): > > He described creationism, whose supporters want it taught in schools alongside evolution, as a “kind of paganism” because it harked back to the days of “nature gods” who were responsible for natural events. > > Brother Consolmagno argued that the Christian God was a supernatural one, a belief that had led the clergy in the past to become involved in science to seek natural reasons for phenomena such as thunder and lightning, which had been previously attributed to vengeful gods. “Knowledge is dangerous, but so is ignorance. That’s why science and religion need to talk to each other,” he said. > > “Religion needs science to keep it away from superstition and keep it close to reality, to protect it from creationism, which at the end of the day is a kind of paganism - it’s turning God into a nature god. And science needs religion in order to have a conscience, to know that, just because something is possible, it may not be a good thing to do.” ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/38 "2006-05-17T11:17:12Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Oh, c’mon. 80 gay lovers? Hogwash! Everyone knows there were only 12. \ That would be 11. The one on his right in the painting is a woman, the book says so. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/39 "2006-05-17T11:31:47Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Remember that snotty brat in grade school? The one who never studied but always knew the answers? No, I don’t remember him. None of my classmates ever knew the answers, no matter if they studied or not. The only one who knew all the answers was me, even though I never… Ah. And my parents said there were no more family secrets. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/40 "2006-05-17T11:33:46Z")
> [@Tripwire](#): > > Heck, the Preacher comic told a much more vile and outrageous Grail story. The difference is that _Preacher_ is read by mainly a) non-Catholics who are b) smarter than a damp mop, whereas _The Da Vinci Code_ is read by everybody, thus opening the door to the misconception that the book is not entirely and totally fictional. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987.md?page=3)