# Methinks the Catholic Church doth protest too much (DaVinciCode) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 16, 2006, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987 "2006-05-16T15:35:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/41 "2006-05-17T12:24:30Z")
It’s the popularity of the book that invites this condemnation I realize thatr this is a “Duh!” type of reaction, but it’s true. The original **Holy Blood, Holy Grail** floated the concepts, and claimed tio be non-fiction, and was best-seller (although not of this maghnitude, and with no bloclbuster movie). Thomas Gifford’s novel \*\*Assassini[/B[ had murderous Catholic Church operatives : [http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0553287400/qid=1147868450/sr=2-1/ref=pd\_bbs\_b\_2\_1/002-8617012-4896809?s=books&v=glance&n=283155](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0553287400/qid=1147868450/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-8617012-4896809?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) A minor bestseller, and again with out the exposure of daVinci Code. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/42 "2006-05-17T12:54:44Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > The difference is that _Preacher_ is read by mainly a) non-Catholics who are b) smarter than a damp mop, whereas _The Da Vinci Code_ is read by everybody, thus opening the door to the misconception that the book is not entirely and totally fictional. Plus, the authors of _Preacher_ never claimed they themselves thought their Jesus story was true (to my knowledge). ---
**Author:** ![mrald](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@mrald](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrald)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/43 "2006-05-17T13:03:24Z")
Hey, if the Catholic Church says something is wrong, it must be true!! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tripwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tripwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripwire)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/44 "2006-05-17T13:56:04Z")
I should probably point out that I can’t see how the movie could be much good: not only was the book not very good to begin with, it seemed unfilmable, with most of the “action” is people working things out in Socratic internal or external dialogues, and nothing ultimately comes of anything that happens. Was Sophie part of the bloodline or something? I don’t even remember, because it’s completely forgettable. The determination and obsession that the right-wing press has with it being bad (drudge has headlined virtually every criticism he can find) is a little irritating though. I almost want it to be good and do well just to shut them up about it. People who run around with chips piled high their shoulders are just so tempting… ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/45 "2006-05-17T15:04:04Z")
> [@](#): > > How you debunk anything about the life of a person we know next to nothing about in a historical sense? Jesus could have had 80 gay lovers and preached death to all shellfish for all we know. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH[SIZE=5]HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! The Catholics, I tellya, they’re coming to get me!!! ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/46 "2006-05-17T15:05:40Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Hey! > > We’ve never had a cookout at St. Pete’s. We’ve always managed to keep the fires outside the Vatican gates: Giordano at Campo de’ Fiore, Savanarola up in Florence, Jan Hus in Constance, etc. Oh there have been cookouts in St Pete’s Square, just not church-sanctioned. “I want you, and the guy behind the bush, to take that hibachi…” ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/47 "2006-05-17T15:08:01Z")
Perhaps because of my atrocious coding. ---
**Author:** ![5que](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/3bc359/32.png) [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/48 "2006-05-17T15:51:09Z")
> [@beebee](#): > > albinos can barely see 2 feet in front of their face. would you hire a legaly blind hit-man? But what about those twins in the Matrix sequel? Huh? Huh? ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/49 "2006-05-17T16:10:21Z")
> [@5que](#): > > But what about those twins in the Matrix sequel? Huh? Huh? Speaking of which: the Merovingians? The dynasty that owed its crown largely to the Dilbert Principle? ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/50 "2006-05-17T16:28:04Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > The scenes in The Last Temptation, by the way, were of an alternate reality based on a choice Jesus could have made, but didn’t. That’s why it’s a temptation. The Catholics who objected to the movie deliberately mischaracterized the film, to make it seem more sacreligious. But does it show Jesus fantasizing about what might have happened, or just a separate story line? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/51 "2006-05-17T16:33:36Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I need to correect the following:The latest round of shrieking has emanated from a Nigerian, Francis Cardinal Arinze. OTOH, he is pretty much shaped in the mold of the Italian prelates, feeling a need to swing the heavy hammer of indignation (backed by a feeling of authoritarian righteousness) whenever he feels he or his have been “attacked.” That’s not totally unexpected, as Arinze was in the Top 10 of almost everyone who had any knowledge of church politics back when we were making book over JPII’s deathbed. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/52 "2006-05-17T16:46:29Z")
Early reports from Cannes are unanimous that [the flick blows mammoth chunks.](http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movies/05/17/da.vinci/index.html) By condemning it, the RCC is only making people feel obliged to go see it anyway. What’s so hard to understand about just letting it die naturally and quickly? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/53 "2006-05-17T16:59:58Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Early reports from Cannes are unanimous that [the flick blows mammoth chunks.](http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movies/05/17/da.vinci/index.html) By condemning it, the RCC is only making people feel obliged to go see it anyway. What’s so hard to understand about just letting it die naturally and quickly? The Church has problems with things dying naturally and quickly… Sorry. Cheap shot. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/54 "2006-05-17T17:00:24Z")
> [@beebee](#): > > i am about 1/4 through the book. > > first thing that bothers me is, prince charles & siblings. did Jesus have a bad case of the uglies? > > second is - did this guy do any actual research? albinos can barely see 2 feet in front of their face. would you hire a legaly blind hit-man? i should think stephen hawking would be a better choice - he could run them down with his wheelchair. > > i don’t think i’ll be seeing the movie. The first thing that bothered you wasn’t the horrendous writing? I haven’t read it, but I’ve seen enough excerpts, including the book’s opening lines, to be astonished at how godawful the writing in a bestseller can be. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/55 "2006-05-17T19:27:23Z")
> [@Tripwire](#): > > Actually, John Mace > > the story kind of peters out by the time we actually get to whether anything is of significance. I can’t even really remember what happens at the end, after defeating the bad-guy, who is sort of a conspiracy of one without greater significance. They hang around some weird ruins and talk to some lady about symbols and some secret place we never see. But nothing much happens. I think the main character implicitly is having sex with the other main character. Thanks. Kind of a disapointment. No Queen of England with magic powers or anything… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/56 "2006-05-17T19:36:35Z")
> [@beebee](#): > > second is - did this guy do any actual research? albinos can barely see 2 feet in front of their face. would you hire a legaly blind hit-man? i should think stephen hawking would be a better choice - he could run them down with his wheelchair. [Here](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077578/) is an established precedent for having an albino hit-man. Probably the only research Brown is capable of. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/57 "2006-05-17T19:38:50Z")
> [@Malodorous](#): > > Do they at least have very comfy chairs in St Pete’s square? Nope. I was there once when the Pope was leading a Mass (I wasn’t there for the Mass, that just happened to be the day Mr Neville and I decided to see the Vatican). They had folding chairs set up, that looked about as uncomfortable as folding chairs usually are. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/58 "2006-05-18T12:07:30Z")
I haven’t read the book and won’t be seeing the movie. But this synopsis in today’s paper makes me really sympathetic to Brown’s version. Primarily b/c his view pretty much coincides with mine and I’ve never bought the Biblical traditions, they don’t make sense. That’s not to say that I have some kind of scholarly “proof” that “Early followers of Jesus viewed him as wholly human”; simply that I view him that way. The Council of Nicaea’s vote DOES amount to a conspiracy, in a way - they embued their leader with supernatural qualities that couldn’t be disproven, and of which they had no personal knowledge, in order to further their aims. Sounds conspiratorial to me. And while they made their Savior the biggest badass on the block, they also burdened Christianity with these supernatural claims that don’t make sense, never have, and never will. And then people argue about THAT instead of learning about “God”. It would be a more effective religion if they DID come clean about Jesus’ humanity & cut the hocus-pocus crap. I think that’s why people are interested in the story, not b/c of blind albinos. > [@Robert King](#): > > [Indianapolis Star](http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060518/NEWS01/605180453) > > THE DIVINITY OF JESUS > • “The Da Vinci Code”: Early followers of Jesus viewed him as wholly human. When church leaders met in 325 A.D. at the Council of Nicaea, at the request of the Roman Emperor Constantine, they established Jesus as the son of God by vote – a close one. > • Biblical tradition: New Testament writers saw Jesus as divine. Early Christians died for these beliefs. Roman and pagan historians took note of that Christian belief as well. The Council of Nicaea didn’t vote on Jesus’ divinity but on how to describe his relationship with God. It decided they were equals – in a landslide. > > MARY MAGDALENE > • “The Da Vinci Code”: She was married to Jesus and was the mother of his children, with their descendants persisting through the centuries. She was to found the church. Gnostic gospels, disparaged by the official church, describe her as Jesus’ “companion,” a word for spouse, and the one he loved more than anyone else. The official church smothered her role to preserve the illusion of Jesus’ divinity. > • Biblical tradition: The Gospels make no mention of a marriage or offspring. Neither do the Gnostic accounts cited by “Da Vinci Code” author Dan Brown. Rather than having her role covered up, Mary Magdalene is mentioned 12 times in the New Testament, more than some disciples. She was a popular saint in the Middle Ages. Catholic texts were changed in 1969 to refer to her as a disciple. > > THE BIBLE > • “The Da Vinci Code”: The Bible is a product of man, evolving “through countless translations, additions and revisions.” Roman Emperor Constantine put the Bible together, selecting four of 80 gospels and omitting those that spoke of Jesus’ human traits. Other versions were destroyed by the church. > • Biblical tradition: The New Testament says it was written by men inspired by God. Scholars say most of it was written from 50 to 120 A.D. The four Gospels and the letters of Paul – the core of the faith – were established among churches long before Constantine. > > THE SACRED FEMININE > • “The Da Vinci Code”: Christianity – and society – forgot its feminine side, whether it be the pagan goddess worship or Mary Magdalene’s marriage to Jesus. Manifestations of this are Eve’s taking the blame for original sin, and witch hunts. Humanity has been out of balance and prone to wars and violence. > • Biblical tradition: Romans venerated Venus and were the world’s greatest war machine. The Greeks idolized Athena but denied women the right to vote or hold property. While referred to as “Father” or “Son,” God isn’t male or female. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/59 "2006-05-18T13:48:56Z")
> [@fessie](#): > > That’s not to say that I have some kind of scholarly “proof” that “Early followers of Jesus viewed him as wholly human”; simply that I view him that way. The Council of Nicaea’s vote DOES amount to a conspiracy, in a way - they embued their leader with supernatural qualities that couldn’t be disproven, and of which they had no personal knowledge, in order to further their aims. Sounds conspiratorial to me. Um… You do know that the Council of Nicea was in the 4th Century, right? Long after the divinity of Christ was established in the Church. The Nicene Creed’s statement on the divinity of Christ is mainly a codification of this belief, in a way that excludes Arianism (“Begotten, not made/ One in being with the Father”). > [@](#): > > And while they made their Savior the biggest badass on the block, they also burdened Christianity with these supernatural claims that don’t make sense, never have, and never will. And then people argue about THAT instead of learning about “God”. It would be a more effective religion if they DID come clean about Jesus’ humanity & cut the hocus-pocus crap. It’s hard to call something a religion without supernatural crap. It would be especially odd at the time Christianity was founded. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987/60 "2006-05-18T13:57:00Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Um… You do know that the Council of Nicea was in the 4th Century, right? Long after the divinity of Christ was established in the Church. The Nicene Creed’s statement on the divinity of Christ is mainly a codification of this belief, in a way that excludes Arianism (“Begotten, not made/ One in being with the Father”). Nope, don’t know beans about it – I was just going by the info in the article I quoted. But I will tell you that I personally dumped Christianity at age 8, when I figured out that billions of Chinese couldn’t all be doomed to Hell just b/c they believed in a different God. I mean, really. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/methinks-the-catholic-church-doth-protest-too-much-davincicode/356987.md?page=4)