# "Method" Directing / Getting an Actor's Performance By Real-Life Constraints **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 19, 2016, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013 "2016-10-19T06:20:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013/21 "2016-10-19T22:00:50Z")
There is a fundamental difference between surprising and actor so as to get a genuine reaction of surprise (which is hard to fake on film) and the sort of psychological nonsense the OP listed as examples. When making filmed presentations sometimes you do need to get a one off surprise or shock. Occasionally stuff like what happened with Broadchurch works, though I would argue that it’s both unnecessary and probably limiting to prevent your actors from having full knowledge of plot developments (especially when the character would know what your actor doesn’t) but lazy and foolish or not it’s not awful. The stuff Kubrick did, the stuff Hitchcock did was just cruel. There is no good reason for it. There are TONS of stories about Hitchcock pulling this nonsense. It’s all stupid. Beyond that “the method” is stupid enough when badly trained actors who don’t really know what they are doing use it. Jared Leto on Suicide Squad? Yeah, what he was doing isn’t method acting its being a self indulgent asshole. Believe it or not there is actually a, ya know, method to Straussbergs method. Same with Stella Adler (who isn’t technically method, but her style gets conflated these days even though they are pretty significantly different). A director trying to apply these techniques without knowing what they are doing and getting the blessing and trust of the cast before hand is just engaging in sadism. And it’s cheap too. It doesn’t get you closer to truth or reality. It doesn’t get your actors better at their craft. It does not tell the story any better. It’s just more dickish. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013/22 "2016-10-20T00:04:03Z")
I think the key is realizing the difference between a good actor and an actor who looks good. Some Hollywood actors are both, many are just one of the two. So saying, “Let the actor do their job” is missing the point. If the actor isn’t good enough at their job - because they’re a child, they were hired for their physical attributes, whatever - then you may need to get creative. I was filming a silent scene with some non-actors who didn’t know one another, who were supposed to be sitting at a table talking to each other, so I started to ask them questions until we had a small conversation going, then started filming. Worked out well and no hard feelings. Or another thing that can happen is that, while the actor might be able to get into the right frame of mind for their part, it can sometimes take a line or two. So even though you might just be filming a one-line cut, for mixing in, you might still have the actor start a bit earlier in the scene and run all the way through, just so that they’re able to naturally move into the line, rather than having to pull it out of nothing. If I was filming something and someone wasn’t doing very good at acting startled, I could see shooting off a blank, or something, to see to it that the reaction seemed real. But, I would generally give the actors a first chance to do it right. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2016, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013/23 "2016-10-20T00:05:25Z")
I’m not sure how intentional, but I don’t think it was a big secret that Bette Davis and Joan Crawford hated each others’ fucking guts, yet they were cast in _What Ever Happened to Baby Jane?_, where their characters had an acrimonious relationship. The _Game of Thrones_ cast is somewhat discouraged from reading the ASOIAF books. Sometime their characters’ deaths are a surprise to the actors, though obviously some show dead are still alive in the books and vice versa. > [@StGermain](#): > > I’d say [Kubrick’s treatment of Shelley Duvall in The Shining](http://moviepilot.com/posts/3930056)qualifies. This doesn’t fit the OP, but Danny Lloyd had no idea he was filming a horror film, and didn’t learn until he was older. And it wasn’t just Kubrick, a lot of old-timey directors, were kind of awful to their actors, some German directors come to mind. Though Herzog and Kinski were mutually combative, and I’m not sure the latter didn’t deserve some of it. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2016, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013/24 "2016-10-20T00:50:45Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I think the key is realizing the difference between a good actor and an actor who looks good. Some Hollywood actors are both, many are just one of the two. So saying, “Let the actor do their job” is missing the point. If the actor isn’t good enough at their job - because they’re a child, they were hired for their physical attributes, whatever - then you may need to get creative. > > I was filming a silent scene with some non-actors who didn’t know one another, who were supposed to be sitting at a table talking to each other, so I started to ask them questions until we had a small conversation going, then started filming. Worked out well and no hard feelings. > > Or another thing that can happen is that, while the actor might be able to get into the right frame of mind for their part, it can sometimes take a line or two. So even though you might just be filming a one-line cut, for mixing in, you might still have the actor start a bit earlier in the scene and run all the way through, just so that they’re able to naturally move into the line, rather than having to pull it out of nothing. > > If I was filming something and someone wasn’t doing very good at acting startled, I could see shooting off a blank, or something, to see to it that the reaction seemed real. But, I would generally give the actors a first chance to do it right. What you are describing is directing. That’s all fine. Intentionally making cast members feel unsafe or isolating members of the cast from each other in any kind of psychological mind games is nonsense. The exception being if you have the trust of the cast and are trying to provoke a specific micro expression reaction. Withholding critical character information from the actor just prevents them from making fully informed choices. There is never anything to be gained from, for example, not letting an actor know if their character is the killer. The opposite of this is when JK Rowling pulled Alan Rickman aside and told him all of Snape’s backstory so he could make informed choices several movies in advance. That’s better than letting him be suprised by how it turns out. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2016, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013/25 "2016-10-20T00:58:42Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I think it’s one thing to withhold things like the end of scene or reveal certain information just before the cameras start rolling. I think it’s something else entirely to mislead an actor about how other cast members think about them or allow other actors to make an actor feel bad as themself and not their character. And I agree with Patty Duke, we use actors and not automatons because we expect the actor to be able to bring their skill and knowledge to the performance. Save the tricks for making horses look like they can talk and respect the actor enough to let them use their experience to create the performance. IIRC, Michael Caine once mentioned the flip side of this: he was playing a guy who hadn’t been to a particular house before, and _he_ really didn’t want to get his bearings ahead of time – because, hey, _he’s_ not supposed to know where the lightswitch is and et cetera, y’know? Aw, c’mon, Mister Director; keep me ignorant! ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2016, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013/26 "2016-10-20T01:12:48Z")
Depends. Burstyn was badly injured on Exorcist. Tarantino choking that woman in Inglorious Basterds seems excessive. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2016, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013/27 "2016-10-20T04:31:31Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > There is never anything to be gained from, for example, not letting an actor know if their character is the killer. I can think of three cases where it might be a good idea: 1. The actor is an idiot and can’t be trusted to interpret how a real human should act. 2. The actor isn’t a very good actor and will broadcast everything, every time he’s on screen. 3. The actor’s vision of how the scene should play out differs from the director’s, and he refuses to play it any other way than his own. It’s almost no effort at all to keep it secret from the actor. It’s several tend of thousands of dollars (potentially) to call everyone back and re-film a scene because you didn’t notice, on set, that in every take Craig was swapping meaningful glances with everyone when he shouldn’t, because he’d decided that he should leave some “clues” for the audience to get in the second viewing. Even if you trust that the actors can act, disregarding all information. If you give them that information, suddenly you’re hostage to their directorial abilities. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2016, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013/28 "2016-10-20T11:32:36Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I can think of three cases where it might be a good idea: > > 1. The actor is an idiot and can’t be trusted to interpret how a real human should act. > 2. The actor isn’t a very good actor and will broadcast everything, every time he’s on screen. > 3. The actor’s vision of how the scene should play out differs from the director’s, and he refuses to play it any other way than his own. So, I can see situations where you are legitimately stuck with #2. But #1 should be obvious before the actor is cast. Why are you working with that guy? How is he getting any work at all? Is he the producers nephew? #3 you can’t know unless you let the actor know what’s going on. So that’s sort of a catch 22. I default to collaboration making better art than dictation. > [@](#): > > Even if you trust that the actors can act, disregarding all information. If you give them that information, suddenly you’re hostage to their directorial abilities. Well, you signed up to direct people not puppets that’s the job. Don’t be lazy and work with them. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013/29 "2016-10-20T14:42:36Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > Supposedly the lead actors in _Saving Private Ryan_ were subjected to boot camp style training over a course of six days, difficult enough so that many of them wanted to quit. Matt Damon was not forced to do this in order to generate resentment towards his character from the other actors. _Aliens_ has the same story. The Colonial Marines actors went through bootcamp together to teach them military behavior and how to work as a unit. The actor playing Lt. Goreman was not included to help create the “career soldier vs newbie officer” friction. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013/30 "2016-10-20T16:38:34Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > > > 1. The actor is an idiot and can’t be trusted to interpret how a real human should act. > > But #1 should be obvious before the actor is cast. Why are you working with that guy? How is he getting any work at all? Is he the producers nephew? In two words: Holly wood. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013/31 "2016-10-20T16:50:57Z")
Former child star Jackie Cooper entitled his autobiography _ **Please Don’t Shoot My Dog, Mister!** _ He claimed that one particularly sadistic director got him to weep for a scene by threatening harm to Cooper’s puppy! ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013/32 "2016-10-20T17:29:57Z")
> [@Randolph](#): > > In two words: Holly wood. There is no major actor I can think of who fits that description. And, barring nephew situations, there are too many people competing for roles for a non famous actor who can’t act like a human to get cast. I worked in Hollywood for 7 years. It’s not really that random. Also, if you are the director you theoretically have a say in casting. Don’t cast that guy. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013/33 "2016-10-20T18:06:04Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Former child star Jackie Cooper entitled his autobiography _ **Please Don’t Shoot My Dog, Mister!** _ > > He claimed that one particularly sadistic director got him to weep for a scene by threatening harm to Cooper’s puppy! What’s more messed up is that it was his own uncle, [Norman Taurog](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Taurog). He got a great scene at the expense of a normal relationship with his nephew. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013/34 "2016-10-20T21:34:07Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > There is no major actor I can think of who fits that description. And, barring nephew situations, there are too many people competing for roles for a non famous actor who can’t act like a human to get cast. > > I worked in Hollywood for 7 years. It’s not really that random. Also, if you are the director you theoretically have a say in casting. Don’t cast that guy. Val Kilmer’s The Saint It should also be noted, a lot of the cases that we’re talking about are from the 70s or earlier, or cases where a new hot director who was making niche films was brought on to direct a megabudget popcorn flick. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013/35 "2016-10-21T13:23:11Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > It’s almost no effort at all to keep it secret from the actor. It’s several tend of thousands of dollars (potentially) to call everyone back and re-film a scene because you didn’t notice, on set, that in every take Craig was swapping meaningful glances with everyone when he shouldn’t, because he’d decided that he should leave some “clues” for the audience to get in the second viewing. > > Even if you trust that the actors can act, disregarding all information. If you give them that information, suddenly you’re hostage to their directorial abilities. IIRC, this happened on **Mad Men** with the actress who played Sally’s teacher who became Don’s seasonal mistress. There were tensions between her and showrunner Matt Weiner (again, IIRC) because she kept making acting choices that deliberately foreshadowed events that were to happen later in the season but were incongruous in the present moment. This made the character appear to be mentally unbalanced. There’s a scene toward the end of the season in which she and Don drive to Don’s house, Don leaves her in the car and goes inside to talk to his wife Betty, and the conversation between Don and Betty becomes incredibly tense (it is, in fact, one of the peak moments in the entire series’ story arc). The whole time I was watching it, though, I was distracted – I was convinced that Sally’s teacher in the car was going to burst in and do something completely insane and violent, because of the way the actress had played her all season long. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013/36 "2016-10-21T14:00:17Z")
But if a director gets a reputation like Hitchcock for pulling nasty crap or lying to an actor in order to get a certain reaction, wouldn’t the actor already know that? Wouldn’t that actor distrust everything that director said or did, thus rendering the whole deal useless? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013/37 "2016-10-21T16:01:11Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Val Kilmer’s The Saint That’s a scenario #4,the actor is talented but has decided the project isn’t worthwhile and isn’t trying. Again, this is why they pay you the big bucks. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013/38 "2016-10-21T16:03:24Z")
> [@gallows\_fodder](#): > > IIRC, this happened on **Mad Men** with the actress who played Sally’s teacher who became Don’s seasonal mistress. There were tensions between her and showrunner Matt Weiner (again, IIRC) because she kept making acting choices that deliberately foreshadowed events that were to happen later in the season but were incongruous in the present moment. This made the character appear to be mentally unbalanced. > > There’s a scene toward the end of the season in which she and Don drive to Don’s house, Don leaves her in the car and goes inside to talk to his wife Betty, and the conversation between Don and Betty becomes incredibly tense (it is, in fact, one of the peak moments in the entire series’ story arc). The whole time I was watching it, though, I was distracted – I was convinced that Sally’s teacher in the car was going to burst in and do something completely insane and violent, because of the way the actress had played her all season long. You can’t know she is going to react that way without letting her know what is coming. If you don’t let her know she may make other similarly incongruous choices because there are fundamental elements of the character she doesn’t understand. Actors in plays manage this 8 shows a week. TV and movie actors can too. Again this is why they pay you the big bucks. Do your job and get the performance you need without reporting to juvenile tricks. ---
**Author:** ![eunoia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eunoia/32/97_2.png) [@eunoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eunoia)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013/39 "2016-10-22T06:03:27Z")
Sorta meta but Richard Rush’s The Stunt Man [The Stunt Man (1980) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081568/) has Peter O’Toole brilliantly portraying such a director. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013/40 "2016-10-22T07:15:34Z")
Mike Leigh works with mostly improvised dialogue, and not telling actors what their characters wouldn’t know in whatever scene he’s filming at the time. So in _Vera Drake_, when the police come to arrest her, the actress didn’t know that was going to happen - and the actors playing her family had no idea what her character had been up to. The results certainly seem to make the dramatic moments more effective (another powerful one is _Secrets and Lies_). I read this morning that Ken Loach did something similar for certain scenes in his new movie _I, Daniel Blake_, though “Method” as I understand it wasn’t involved: [http://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/oct/21/dave-johns-i-daniel-blake-ken-loach-this-film-can-change-things](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/oct/21/dave-johns-i-daniel-blake-ken-loach-this-film-can-change-things) But that’s not the same thing as deliberately lying to the actors in their own personalities, as it were. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-directing-getting-an-actors-performance-by-real-life-constraints/769013.md?page=3)