# "Method of conception" is a no no. What should Ryan have said? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 28, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958 "2012-08-28T19:18:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/61 "2012-08-29T19:22:30Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > No, you don’t. > > Yes, I agree, adoption isn’t the same as eviction, and doesn’t kill anyone, but that misses the point of my argument. The point is that you are not forced to feed and shelter your children. There are processes in place to allow parents to give up unwanted children. Yeah, it isn’t the same as kicking them out into the streets, but the point is that you have the choice over whether to keep your kids. But you do not have the choice of abandoning them if you find yourself in the middle of the woods and they are slowing you down. You can’t really wave away the part where aborting a fetus kills the fetus. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/62 "2012-08-29T19:31:44Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > In your opinion only. And a fetus is a human being deserving of the rights of a human being is your opinion only also. The difference between your position and his is that his position allows each person to act as she wishes on her opinion. Your position prevents people from acting on their opinions, and jails those who do and those who help. If banning abortion had no costs, then maybe I could see it, just to be safe. But banning abortion has significant costs - the cost to the woman forced to bear a baby against her will, the costs of raising the child which “pro-lifers” want no part of, and health risks to the mother. In areas of conflict I prefer to go with the option of greatest liberty. You obviously disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/63 "2012-08-29T21:29:17Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > In your opinion only. No; my position is, again, consistent with both reality and the general ethical position of society. Theirs is not. Theirs is a fantasy based construct built for the purpose of justifying the mistreatment of women; nor as **Damuri Ajashi** points out do the “pro-lifers” even act in a manner consistent with their own supposed beliefs. Which I’m sure is a major reason why you keep saying “in your opinion only” instead of trying to actually defend a position that you know is indefensible. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/64 "2012-08-29T21:39:42Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The difference between your position and his is that his position allows each person to act as she wishes on her opinion. Your position prevents people from acting on their opinions, and jails those who do and those who help. Put another way, the difference between his opinion and your opinion is that his opinion grants everyone the right to live, while your opinion results in _dead babies_. Not that I agree with his opinion, but defending abortion on live-and-let-live grounds doesn’t really work. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/65 "2012-08-29T22:14:40Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > And a fetus is a human being deserving of the rights of a human being is your opinion only also. The difference between your position and his is that his position allows each person to act as she wishes on her opinion. Your position prevents people from acting on their opinions, and jails those who do and those who help. And his opinion results in murdering human beings. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/66 "2012-08-29T22:15:44Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No; my position is, again, consistent with both reality and the general ethical position of society. As you see it. Not as others do. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/67 "2012-08-29T22:17:02Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > In areas of conflict I prefer to go with the option of greatest liberty. You obviously disagree. Yes, in areas of conflict I prefer to go with the option of saving human lives. You obviously disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/68 "2012-08-29T22:26:58Z")
I suppose it was too much to hope for that this thread wouldn’t turn into another abortion debate. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/69 "2012-08-30T00:31:25Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > As you see it. Not as others do. To repeat: > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Which I’m sure is a major reason why you keep saying “in your opinion only” instead of trying to actually defend a position that you know is indefensible. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/70 "2012-08-30T00:52:07Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > To repeat: To repeat: you keep confusing your opinion with “the truth”. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/71 "2012-08-30T02:11:11Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > To repeat: you keep confusing your opinion with “the truth”. Hardly just my opinion; it’s pretty much our entire system of ethics that the “pro-lifers” want to throw out. And you are just underlining how worthless their viewpoint is with your repeated refusal to even attempt to defend it. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/72 "2012-08-30T02:23:25Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Hardly just my opinion; it’s pretty much our entire system of ethics that the “pro-lifers” want to throw out. > > And you are just underlining how worthless their viewpoint is with your repeated refusal to even attempt to defend it. There is nothing to “defend”. Their opinion is that a fetus is a human being. Since you (both singular and plural) cannot define the exact point at which fetus becomes a human being (and I don’t mean “legally”), both your opinion on when that happens and theirs are equally valid (or equally invalid, if you prefer). ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/73 "2012-08-30T02:38:38Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > If you believe that life begins at conception, and that the fetus represents a human soul, then it is fully consistent to believe that the fetus has a right to be born, and that really has nothing to do with the circumstances around its conception. Nothing about that means you are indifferent to the suffering of the woman who was raped. It could just mean that you’ve decided that bringing the baby to term is the lesser of two tragedies. What I don’t understand is how he can be so happy to support Mitt’s belief that it is okay to murder rape-babies. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/74 "2012-08-30T02:55:51Z")
> [@Enkel](#): > > What I don’t understand is how he can be so happy to support Mitt’s belief that it is okay to murder rape-babies. Can you quote his statement on the “so happy” part? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/75 "2012-08-30T04:14:46Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There is nothing to “defend”. Their opinion is that a fetus is a human being. Since you (both singular and plural) cannot define the exact point at which fetus becomes a human being (and I don’t mean “legally”), both your opinion on when that happens and theirs are equally valid (or equally invalid, if you prefer). If a single celled organism with human DNA is a human being then I’ve killed more people than Stalin every time I spit on the sidewalk. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/76 "2012-08-30T04:44:40Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > If a single celled organism with human DNA is a human being then I’ve killed more people than Stalin every time I spit on the sidewalk. Abortions do not involve “a single celled organism with human DNA”. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/77 "2012-08-30T04:59:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Getting back to the OP, I think Ryan took it on the nose kind of unfairly for this one. It was clumsy phrasing, nothing more. Yeah, but it betrays clumsy thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/78 "2012-08-30T06:02:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And his opinion results in murdering human beings. In your opinion. See how much fun that is. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/79 "2012-08-30T06:03:25Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > In your opinion. Exactly my point. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/80 "2012-08-30T06:06:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > To repeat: you keep confusing your opinion with “the truth”. That would be you. He recognizes that different people have different views of this truth, and should be allowed to act on those views. You think that only you have the correct view of the truth, and everyone should be forced to act on it. Just like those convinced that their truth that the only way to heaven is through Jesus justified forced baptisms and worse. After all, that is talking eternal salvation or damnation. Better to baptize, just in case, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958.md?page=5)