# "Method of conception" is a no no. What should Ryan have said? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 28, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958 "2012-08-28T19:18:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/121 "2012-08-31T17:29:04Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The kids being aborted are not “eight cell embryos”. Aha! Eight cell embryos are not kids, and thus not human. You’ve made the first step on the way to pro-choice. Is implantation the dividing line for you? If so, why? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/122 "2012-08-31T18:49:14Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Aha! Eight cell embryos are not kids, and thus not human. No. I said abortions are not done on eight-cell embryos. Do you have a reading comprehension problem? You seem to read what’s not written. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/123 "2012-08-31T20:39:00Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > even if it _was_ a genuine person it _still_ wouldn’t be murder to kill it for battening onto someone as a food source, any more than it would be murder to kill a vampire trying to drain your blood. I’m pro-Choice, and I don’t believe a fetus is the moral equivalent of a baby, but _come on_. Clearly in cases of consensual sex the mother (who knew her actions could result in pregnancy) is more responsible for the fetus being in her womb than the fetus is. If the fetus _were_ a person, that’d be an exceptionally poor excuse to murder it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/124 "2012-08-31T21:16:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Der Trihs’ “wrong opinion” affects the children being murdered in abortions. If you actually believe that a fetus is a child and an abortion is a murder, then the U.S. has a million-plus murders per year. Do you think the women participating in this holocaust-level slaughter are sociopaths? Evil? How do you figure they manage to function in society, being child-killers and such? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/125 "2012-08-31T21:31:36Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > If you actually believe that a fetus is a child and an abortion is a murder, then the U.S. has a million-plus murders per year. Do you think the women participating in this holocaust-level slaughter are sociopaths? Evil? How do you figure they manage to function in society, being child-killers and such? The society (you included) seems to condone child-killing, so they in that society they function fine. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/126 "2012-08-31T21:40:39Z")
Well, then I guess child-killing isn’t that bad, huh? It certainly doesn’t seem to interfere with industry or finance or whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/127 "2012-08-31T21:45:18Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, then I guess child-killing isn’t that bad, huh? It certainly doesn’t seem to interfere with industry or finance or whatnot. I guess you need a certain modicum of morality to realize that child killing is bad whether it interferes with industry or finance or not. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/128 "2012-08-31T21:50:52Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Der Trihs’ “wrong opinion” affects the children being murdered in abortions. And your wrong opinion reduces women to the level of brood mares, and is the moral equivalent of rape. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/129 "2012-08-31T22:04:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I guess you need a certain modicum of morality to realize that child killing is bad whether it interferes with industry or finance or not. It must be tragic for you to be surrounded by hundreds of millions of immoral people, then, because by all indications, a million extra “child kills” per year doesn’t seem to be a primary concern for most Americans. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/130 "2012-09-01T09:26:43Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Making abortion illegal leads to back alley abortions which leads to dead women, who we all agree are human beings. The harm caused by outlawing a procedure must be weighed against the harm caused by permitting it, but the fact that harm can be demonstrated does not negate the harm a legal procedure causes. From a pro-life perspective, state sanctioned or funded abortions aren’t much different from state sanctioned assassinations. Less messy, less painful for all involved, less mired in seediness - yet still morally reprehensible. As for defining something as human: it’s subject to the Sorites paradox and is the reason why I don’t particularly care for such a contention, as there will always be differences of opinion. Whether an entity can feel pain or not is subject to a soft problem of consciousness, but is subject to scientific investigation to some degree. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/131 "2012-09-02T11:59:30Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No, the law doesn’t matter to the argument, but the argument about abortion derives from the law, including yours. I don’t see anyone arguing that a child can be aborted 5 minutes before delivery. Although maybe that’s the way you want it to be. 5 minuets before delivery is a (in my opinion) a silly argument, How many Abortions take place then, unless it is to save a woman’s life? And even then it would not be an abortion but a delivery of a born child.If the child were killed for no reason it would be illegal and the doctor would be jailed! At such a stage the woman has already made the choice of keeping the Child alive.That argument doesn’t hold water! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/132 "2012-09-02T12:03:49Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > But you do not have the choice of abandoning them if you find yourself in the middle of the woods and they are slowing you down. You can’t really wave away the part where aborting a fetus kills the fetus. I notice you use the word fetus, not child. Big difference! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/133 "2012-09-02T12:09:57Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Put another way, the difference between his opinion and your opinion is that his opinion grants everyone the right to live, while your opinion results in _dead babies_. > > Not that I agree with his opinion, but defending abortion on live-and-let-live grounds doesn’t really work. Until it becomes a Baby it is not yet a person. Just as a fertile egg is not a chicken.Biologically that is proven. One should not be forced to abort at any stage, that is the choice a woman should have, to protect her self and perhaps the welfare of her other children if she has any! The argument called’ pro-Life’ is misleading, it should be pro-birth. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/134 "2012-09-02T12:15:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There is nothing to “defend”. Their opinion is that a fetus is a human being. Since you (both singular and plural) cannot define the exact point at which fetus becomes a human being (and I don’t mean “legally”), both your opinion on when that happens and theirs are equally valid (or equally invalid, if you prefer). Once the fetus can be looked at and one can see it is a human being and then, not just a clump of cells, that is one way to tell it is a human being, until the it just contains human life (just as the sperm does). and the law allows the woman a choice for it to be her life or the life of what’ will ’ become a human being.One should be more pro-life of the woman than the fertile egg! ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/135 "2012-09-02T17:04:42Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Once the fetus can be looked at and one can see it is a human being and then, not just a clump of cells, that is one way to tell it is a human being > **[10 Weeks Pregnant: Symptoms, Belly, Baby Size & More](https://www.babycenter.com/pregnancy/week-by-week/10-weeks-pregnant)** > > At 10 weeks, your baby has grown to the size of strawberry and you may be ready for maternity clothes. Learn about what to expect at 10 weeks with BabyCenter. At 10 weeks, can you see it is a human being and not just a clump of cells? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/136 "2012-09-02T17:49:36Z")
Why? Because it looks like one? ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/137 "2012-09-02T22:08:52Z")
That was good enough for Potter Stewart. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/138 "2012-09-03T00:19:46Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [10 Weeks Pregnant: Symptoms, Belly, Baby Size & More | BabyCenter](http://www.babycenter.com/fetal-development-images-10-weeks) > > At 10 weeks, can you see it is a human being and not just a clump of cells? The brain is doing nothing at this point, its scaffolding. Might as well fight against liposuction as murder of a human being. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/139 "2012-09-03T03:07:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Why? Because it looks like one? > [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > The brain is doing nothing at this point, its scaffolding. Might as well fight against liposuction as murder of a human being. **monavis** : “Once the fetus can be looked at and one can see it is a human being and then, not just a clump of cells, that is one way to tell it is a human being.” ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958/140 "2012-09-03T03:53:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > **monavis** : “Once the fetus can be looked at and one can see it is a human being and then, not just a clump of cells, that is one way to tell it is a human being.” Thats supposed to mean something? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/method-of-conception-is-a-no-no-what-should-ryan-have-said/632958.md?page=8)