# \#MeToo backlash is hurting women (Bloomberg article) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 5, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626 "2018-12-05T19:09:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![BrainFireBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e495f1/32.png) [@BrainFireBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainFireBob)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/181 "2018-12-06T20:06:27Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Maybe it will assuage your irritation to recall the fact that the default for many millennia has been a decided **absence** of “even-handedness”, in which women’s physical appearance was automatically prioritized and judged by men in ways that other men’s appearance was not. > > How’s **that** for “a disservice to humanity”? Why don’t you spend some time thinking about how shitty **that** situation was for women, and how it still carries over into so many aspects of women’s lives, before going into your sulk about what a terrible burden it is for you to have to worry about possible unintended microaggressions? > > We’ve spent thousands of years where microaggression (and macroaggression) denigrating women’s competence and sexually objectifying women was the automatic default, and damn near universal. And then as soon as the social pendulum swings even slightly in the direction of equality and non-gendered “even-handed” respect, some men start whining how unfair it is not to immediately give them the benefit of the doubt that when they follow traditionally sexist gendered behavior patterns they don’t really mean anything sexist by it. Sheesh, talk about perpetuating male privilege and fragility. Ah, but I’m not those men, and any relationships I establish with any individual, regardless of gender, are our relationships. I’m no more guilty of what your father/brother/uncle did to you than you are of what my father/brother/uncle did to me. I’m only accountable for treating you with respect- which yes, should include being considerate to sensitivities and issues you may enter into new relationships with as a courtesy- but you are accountable for the same, in my view. You aren’t thousands of years of women any more than I’m thousands of years of individuals either. We’re the result, but we’re also our own persons. ---
**Author:** ![BrainFireBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e495f1/32.png) [@BrainFireBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainFireBob)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/182 "2018-12-06T20:08:12Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > I could comment on this, but he’d only get upset. Typical man. Ah, so you suffer from sexist bigotry you can’t overcome in interactions with others. I pity you for that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainFireBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e495f1/32.png) [@BrainFireBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainFireBob)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/183 "2018-12-06T20:09:26Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Which is probably a good thing in many respects and has been strongly advocated as a social improvement by a number of people, such as [the etiquette advice columnist Miss Manners](http://articles.latimes.com/1994-12-04/business/fi-4917_1_workplace-rudeness/2), for decades before #MeToo was ever born or thought of. Honestly, there’s truth to that, but the problem is it’s upsetting to business dealing norms. Not that they’re right or wrong, but the handshake interpersonal deal has been part of business- the interpersonal trust side- and so it needs a replacement with removal. Instead, women are being unfairly shut out. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/184 "2018-12-06T20:11:21Z")
> [@BrainFireBob](#): > > Ah, so you suffer from sexist bigotry you can’t overcome in interactions with others. I pity you for that. If understanding irony is too difficult… …oh, screw it. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/185 "2018-12-06T20:12:40Z")
> [@BrainFireBob](#): > > Per you. Your coworkers may have a different opinion. > > And it’s an effect of being a mature adult that one is aware of things. There’s no need to think about it much, just be aware. I am aware of how to treat other people. You seem to be the one having such difficulty with the concept. I’m trying to help you see that you are overcomplicating things. Paralysis by over-analysis is the phrase that comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/186 "2018-12-06T20:16:45Z")
> [@BrainFireBob](#): > > Pushing a narrative interpretation over the article. No YOU are! > [@](#): > > Men aren’t trying to be Weinstein, they’re afraid of being Aziz Ansari (who had no idea he’d stepped over the line, even going for affirmative consent). We should all be so lucky to be Aziz Ansari. He’s got a major comedy tour coming up, and is already selling out shows. So much for, “If you are even falsely accused of misconduct, your life is DESTROYED!!!1!!” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/187 "2018-12-06T20:18:25Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > I could comment on this, but he’d only get upset. Typical man. This is hilarious. I’m sorry some men didn’t get it. You might have to interrupt them to explain it, maybe in a condescending tone. Sometimes our little brains can’t keep up with complex ideas. ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/188 "2018-12-06T20:18:32Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Ah yes, each coworker is an individual person that should be treated with respect. And the way that respect is shown is different depending on them individually. I don’t understand this. Is it supposed to be sarcasm? I’m not trying to start an argument or anything. I just genuinely don’t know what is meant by this. If I’m being courteous and professional, why should that treatment vary by person? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/189 "2018-12-06T20:18:42Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > What the fuck is wrong with… him? And how on earth do you think his punishment is unfair? Jesus Christ. Why cant you use adult language? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/190 "2018-12-06T20:19:24Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > What the fuck is wrong with… him? And how on earth do you think his punishment is unfair? Jesus Christ. We don’t actually know what the punishment was, just that it was “hot water.” I will go ahead and say that if it is literal, in that they are boiling this guy alive a punishment, then that may be a bit unfair. > [@Railer13](#): > > The one example I remember of a guy being accused of such was many years ago, when a co-worker somehow climbed atop the copier with his pants down and took a picture of his junk, and then gave said picture to another co-worker, who was a single woman. She immediately reported it to her supervisor and the offender was fired the same day. I often wondered how he explained to his wife how he lost his job. He could show the documentation on the incident. I am sure that she will be so excited to receive a facsimile of his manliness that all will be forgiven. > [@BrainFireBob](#): > > No, it’s the attendant “believe all women” meme, not that a substantial number of accusations are false. > > It’s that accusations are to instantly be treated as true or as evidence of a crime, regardless of male behavior. Since women span the same gamut of law-abiding to criminal that men do as a gestalt group, even a man who has done absolutely nothing can face a false accusation. This happened to a college student in the last few years- his face was plastered all over campus as something like “Rapist of the Month”; he was essentially randomly pictured (no rape, he was in fact a virgin) to “bring attention to the problem” by an activist group. While straightened out formally, the social impacts can and do last. > > Is it likely that any individual woman will make a false accusation, or an accusation based on incomplete context? Absolutely not. Are there women who will? A small minority. Is there any way of identifying who might wield this power arbitrarily? Nope, not unless they’ve developed such a pattern and documentation to this extent is provable (Tawana Bradley’s escalating accusations against men who poked holes in her story, her identifying as rapists the men it was most convenient for her to have raped her in an escalating story is such a pattern). Solution: Avoid the situation, eliminate the risk. So, what I hear you saying here, is “Don’t believe women.” A popular position, and one that has been the guiding principle for our patriarchal society for quite a while. Why fix what ain’t broke, amiright? Just for shits and giggles though, lets sit down and actually listen to what they have to say. We can always go back to patronizing later. > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Yup, I’m a fucking sexist pig, or somethin’. > “Believe women” means “don’t believe men” even if there is only the remotest of chances of the accusation being true. I don’t care how few the false accusations are, if it’s against me it’s 100%. So, what I hear you saying here, is “Don’t believe women.” A popular position, and one that has been the guiding principle for our patriarchal society for quite a while. Why fix what ain’t broke, amiright? Just for shits and giggles though, lets sit down and actually listen to what they have to say. We can always go back to patronizing later. > [@filmore](#): > > A realistic example might be something like this. A company hires a bunch of college new hires. A 50-year-old male employee is waiting for an elevator when one of the new hires comes up. The older employee introduces himself, asks how the new hire is enjoying the company, what they are working on, if they found an apartment, what they do for fun in the city, etc. There are a few ways this conversation can be construed: > > 1. Idle chit-chat to make the new hire feel welcome and get to learn more about them > 2. The older employee is chatting to flirt with the new hire > 3. The older employee is just making idle small talk, but the new hire interprets it as flirting The first three things he did are fine. Talk about yourself and your job in the company. Ask how they are doing in the company, ask what they are doing in the company. Great. Then you ask about where you live, and what you do outside of work. Does that not seem to be at least a bit invasive? That a complete stranger is coming up and demanding to know these things? > [@](#): > > If the new hire is a man, then likely both people take it as idle chit-chat. But if the new hire is a woman, then it’s not so clear. The woman has to be evaluating the conversation to determine if the older employee is trying to flirt. And even if the older employee is just making chit-chat, there’s always the possibility the new hire could misconstrue it as flirting. And if it is a man, then the man is probably thinking “Who the eff does this guy think he is, demanding to know all this about me?” But yeah, he finds it tiresome and boring, especially if this is the nth such conversation he has had today while he is just trying to get on the elevator, but as a guy, he may find it less threatening than if it were a woman. > [@](#): > > Even if the older employee is just trying to be welcoming, he may not instigate conversation out of respect. Unless they will be working together, there may not be any need for them to actually talk to each other. He may not want to put her in the uncomfortable position of trying to decide if he’s a nice coworker or creepy older stalker. If he is unable to separate work conversation from his social life, then that may be for the best. People are there because they want a paycheck, they are not there to listen to your stories and answer your questions about their personal lives. The difference between social and work interactions, is if you are a bore or worse in a social interaction, they can just stop interacting with you. If it happens at work, they cannot do that without quitting. > [@](#): > > There’s also more of a burden on the older employee to be cautious in what he says. He should be conscious if asking about things like what part of town she lives in or what she does for fun could be construed as being creepy. And there is no burden on the young worker who has this old guy coming up and demanding to know where they live and what they do outside of work? > [@](#): > > While I think #MeToo is good and important, and it’s brought many issues of harassment to the forefront, it has also increased the penalties and reduced the amount of consideration given to the accused. If the new hire goes to HR and says the older employee was being creepy, there will be quick consequences to the older employee. Even if that’s 100% because the new hire misinterpreted the older employee’s idle chit-chat, that won’t matter a whole lot. HR has to take swift and decisive action in the #MeToo era. The safest thing for a man is not to interact unless necessary, but the consequence is that it’s harder for male and female coworkers to get to know each other. It should have also made some people rethink the way that they interact with people. That someone being uncomfortable with the way that you approach them may be actually on the way that you approach them, not on them for being creeped out by your approach. Judging by this thread, we have a ways to go. > [@BrainFireBob](#): > > They have. I’m currently on a new job trying to create friendliness amongst my new team members, which I find takes a certain kind of aggressive even-handed niceness made always in groups so everyone of both genders can perceive the even-handedness. And that’s a disservice to humanity, in my opinion, that we can’t give the initial benefit of the doubt before concluding any remark must be intended as a microaggression. Wait for a pattern before concluding it’s harassment, it’s basic social courtesy that’s been lost in the modern era. I think I see the problem. You are doing “friendliness” wrong. That’s not how it works. > [@Slash1972](#): > > There is quite an easy fix to avoid all these errors: Don’t talk about non-work stuff at work. This may be the wisest thing you have ever said on these boards. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/191 "2018-12-06T20:22:18Z")
IIRC, in many workplaces, there was always the unofficial policy that when a boss has to fire an employee, there should always be a 3rd person present in the office to serve as a witness, because the fired person has incentive to distort or create false accusations about what went down in that conversation in the office. This would be one main area where the Pence Rule (not just applied to women, but all employees in general) would be perfectly logical. In a situation where an employee has cause for revenge/grievance (as a fired employee may feel,) don’t give them ammo. A fired woman may feel incentive to fabricate a false accusation against a male boss if it’s just him and her in the office. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/192 "2018-12-06T20:24:16Z")
> [@BrainFireBob](#): > > Read my posts. I do that, and it has to be highly individually customized. If you were at all a courteous human being, as you are claiming to be, in sincerity you would have read with that consideration. Since you haven’t, here’s a hint: THIS IS THE POSITION I’M ADVOCATING IS NECESSARY Wait, did you just complain that you have to treat every individual as if they are an individual? Huh. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/193 "2018-12-06T20:26:32Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Well, [under these circumstances](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=856859), for one example. > > It’s a very long thread but you participated in it so I’m sure you’re familiar with the content. I think it’s fair to say that Hardwick being immediately terminated was indicative of the networks and various media taking his accuser seriously, and Hardwick being fully reinstated following an investigation can reasonably be taken as indicative of his innocence (not that he’s perfect, but that the seriousness of some of the allegations was not supported by the evidence). So the conclusion appears to be that in this case, his accuser was being unfairly vindictive – a fact that remains a fact even if in her own mind she was being forthright. And these accusations were given tremendous weight in the public perception by #MeToo – a weight that is independent of their truthfulness. Also in that thread is an anecdote about a false accusation that I happen to know about, again strengthened by #MeToo. > > One of the problems, as I think was indicated in that thread, is that #MeToo started as a movement for women who were victimized by real and serious sexual abuse, and has been morphing into a movement that supports women who bring forward a vast range of relatively benign complaints dressed up as “sexual abuse”. > > I understand that the problems #MeToo is addressing are real, deeply entrenched, and deeply serious. I’m just saying that there are two sides to this, and we’re seeing some of the downsides of it. The same sort of thing happened with MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) which was formed to deal with an equally serious problem, and whose impetus largely came from those who had lost loved ones to drunk drivers – certainly a group one can empathize with. But over time, as with any bureaucracy, it has started to morph into an intransigent advocacy empire – for example, pushing for increasingly draconian penalties that have been shown to less effective than education and training for normal people and completely ineffective for chronic alcoholics, and, incredibly, at one point suggesting that all new cars – all of them – should be equipped with mandatory breathalyzer interlocks! There is nothing inconsistent with saying “I strongly oppose drunk driving” and at the same time, “in some areas MADD has lost its way and gone around the bend”. It’s potentially the same with #MeToo. I disagree with your characterization of that thread (and the topic in general). There’s nothing wrong with women coming forward and telling their stories honestly, and we’ve received no indication that the accuser of Hardwick wasn’t being honest. Maybe the network conducted a full and thorough investigation and reached the correct conclusion, or maybe not – it’s very possible we’ll never know. But tons of people (don’t recall if you were one of them) were all too happy to denigrate Hardwick’s accuser when there was no reason to believe she was not being honest – and such denigration is actively harmful to the cause of doing a better job of being compassionate to those with stories to tell, and treating those stories with seriousness. So I don’t believe you’ve offered any good reason why someone could reasonably be upset about the #MeToo movement in general. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/194 "2018-12-06T20:28:40Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > IIRC, in many workplaces, there was always the unofficial policy that when a boss has to fire an employee, there should always be a 3rd person present in the office to serve as a witness, because the fired person has incentive to distort or create false accusations about what went down in that conversation in the office. This would be one main area where the Pence Rule (not just applied to women, but all employees in general) would be perfectly logical. In a situation where an employee has cause for revenge/grievance (as a fired employee may feel,) don’t give them ammo. A fired woman may feel incentive to fabricate a false accusation against a male boss if it’s just him and her in the office. The “Pence Rule” is about women specifically, and thus the “Pence Rule” applied to all employees is like “racism” applied to all races – nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![BrainFireBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e495f1/32.png) [@BrainFireBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainFireBob)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/195 "2018-12-06T20:30:03Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, what I hear you saying here, is “Don’t believe women.” > > A popular position, and one that has been the guiding principle for our patriarchal society for quite a while. Why fix what ain’t broke, amiright? > > Just for shits and giggles though, lets sit down and actually listen to what they have to say. We can always go back to patronizing later. False dichotomy. I’m not saying “Don’t believe women.” I’m saying that demonstrating how woke you are by insisting on action now, or that only dealing with things by going to HR instead of going first to the coworker themselves or their boss, is believing that women are never wrong, mistaken, or malicious, and that’s not right. MeToo hasn’t morphed into “believe all women,” it’s morphing into “If you don’t take immediate action that’s publicly visible, you’re showing you don’t believe women.” Pendulum’s too far for justice and fairness. Particularly the public part bothers me. A private reprimand- or even a private “Hey Paul, someone took that remark as sexual and this is how and why. You understand that you shouldn’t do that, even if it didn’t used to be that way?” is acceptable to actually correct behavior. Even a “Hey, Paul, I find that kind of offensive.” Not “Paul should be publically reprimanded.” I had a coworker rush another coworker to the hospital at 1am (we are 24 hour) with a heart attack because there was no-one on site that could use the defibrillator. Saved her life, apparently, but was a complete violation of the safety guidelines. So he had a private “Don’t do that” from his boss, and we all had to take safety training. No names were ever named publically. That’s a fair handling of an honest error. [Warning: Telling a Lame Joke in an Elevator can Endanger Your Career](https://quillette.com/2018/11/23/warning-telling-a-lame-joke-in-an-elevator-can-endanger-your-career/) This is an example of a generational reference being taken as sexualized, and therefore offensive. They investigated (fair), concluded he had done nothing inappropriate and she had misunderstood him (OK), and fired him anyway (ridiculous). ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/196 "2018-12-06T20:31:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Can’t quite figure out what your point is here, aside from something about your balls shriveling (and hey, speak for yourself – I’m aware of the rare but non-zero existence of false accusations, and mine feel just fine). Maybe some reading comprehension is needed. Or maybe the air is too thin up there on your horse. > [@Kimstu](#): > > 😕 How does one false accusation “cancel” even one non-false accusation, much less a hundred of them? Because, if you aren’t an asshole, the false ones are the ones that worry you. You are happy they get all the bastards, but the ones against good guys are the ones that could, improbably, hit you. > [@](#): > > All such accusations should be taken seriously and investigated. That’s what the maxim “believe women” fundamentally means. It should, but it doesn’t. In practice, BAW means men have to prove their innocence. > [@](#): > > When the investigation finds that, say, one out of a hundred women was not being truthful in her accusation, _nobody is demanding that you believe **that** woman’s false claims_. Everyone believe the women who accused Kavannaugh and then she recanted. > [@](#): > > But you aren’t legally, ethically or socially entitled to disregard a hundred valid accusations (or even one) merely because you know of one accusation that was false. Or vice versa, of course. Definitely. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/197 "2018-12-06T20:35:29Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > > [@Ravenman](#): > > > > What the fuck is wrong with… him? And how on earth do you think his punishment is unfair? Jesus Christ. > > Why cant you use adult language? I know the kids use the word “fuck” a lot these days, but I still consider it adult language. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/198 "2018-12-06T20:43:28Z")
> [@BrainFireBob](#): > > Ah, but I’m not those men, and any relationships I establish with any individual, regardless of gender, are our relationships. I’m no more guilty of what your father/brother/uncle did to you than you are of what my father/brother/uncle did to me. As you note, though, we as individuals are the outcome of thousands of years of social conditioning in **unequal** relationships. Nobody in society, including you, can magically shuck off all vestiges and effects of that conditioning just by consciously recognizing that the inequality was wrong. And you are being selfish and unreasonable if you expect other people to assume that you have. You don’t get to decree, as an individual, that although you automatically benefit from having the advantage of your historically privileged status, everybody else is required to give you the (very unrealistic) benefit of the doubt that your historically privileged status has absolutely zero effect on your views or actions. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/199 "2018-12-06T20:45:19Z")
> [@BrainFireBob](#): > > [Warning: Telling a Lame Joke in an Elevator can Endanger Your Career](https://quillette.com/2018/11/23/warning-telling-a-lame-joke-in-an-elevator-can-endanger-your-career/) This is an example of a generational reference being taken as sexualized, and therefore offensive. They investigated (fair), concluded he had done nothing inappropriate and she had misunderstood him (OK), and fired him anyway (ridiculous). Are you sure you read that article correctly? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/200 "2018-12-06T20:45:42Z")
> [@JB99](#): > > I don’t understand this. Is it supposed to be sarcasm? I’m not trying to start an argument or anything. I just genuinely don’t know what is meant by this. If I’m being courteous and professional, why should that treatment vary by person? With that post I was trying to speak in his language so he’d better understand what I was trying to say, that’s one example. I’m a tech director at a school. The way I explain things when coworkers need help depends on what level of tech knowledge they have, that’s another example. I pay attention to how people talk to me, and the things they talk about, so that when I have conversations I’m taking that into consideration. I just mean treating people as individuals, and respecting every individual. that’s all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626.md?page=11)