# \#MeToo backlash is hurting women (Bloomberg article) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 5, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626 "2018-12-05T19:09:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/381 "2018-12-14T00:39:18Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Exactly. People are living in the past or a deliberate state of denial when they severely underestimate instant and global communications. This is a continuous misunderstanding of the #MeToo position. It’s not accusation = guilt; it’s been explained many times. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/382 "2018-12-14T01:55:28Z")
> [@etasyde](#): > > Because, threatening people with legal action is a way to get them to be minimally and very resentfully compliant, When people break the law, legal action is an appropriate response. That’s why the law was passed. It may not be a first response but it certainly should be one when someone implements a discriminatory policy in hiring. > [@etasyde](#): > > and calling them jerks while accusing them of great failings is a great way to get them to hate you and whatever you stand for, but if you care 2 hoots about actually understanding the positions of others and potentially persuading them to see things differently than they do rather than react as defensively as possible to protect themselves, you ought to consider your own approach as suicidal to the cause. The CEO in question is acting like a jerk. These may not be the first words out of my mouth but if he refuses to act on it I wouldn’t have a problem saying it. Reasoning is good, but in the scenario given he knows what he’s doing and appears to be only concerned with himself. What do you propose doing to change this CEO’s mind? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/383 "2018-12-14T02:06:37Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Go pat yourself on the back. I will when you stop bragging about, and actually stop, harassing women. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/384 "2018-12-14T02:26:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is a continuous misunderstanding of the #MeToo position. It’s not accusation = guilt; it’s been explained many times. Would you want to be accused of something and have it by chance become one of those stories that go viral? You have that much faith in your fellow sentient critter? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/385 "2018-12-14T02:33:18Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Would you want to be accused of something and have it by chance become one of those stories that go viral? You have that much faith in your fellow sentient critter? Would you want to be sexually harassed and know that unless you have it on video that there’s a large percentage of the population that will dismiss your claim outright? You have that little faith in your fellow sentient critter? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/386 "2018-12-14T02:40:59Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > And as for rape accusation being so consequence-free : do you seriously believe that if people googling your name were finding “accused of being a rapist”, even in the way things are now, your prospects for dates and jobs would stay the same? Please answer to that too. You know a guy who was accused of rape is currently a Supreme Court Justice, right? You might have heard about it. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/387 "2018-12-14T02:46:54Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Would you want to be sexually harassed and know that unless you have it on video that there’s a large percentage of the population that will dismiss your claim outright? You have that little faith in your fellow sentient critter? Since I’m not a fan of large scale and long lasting social ostracism as a form of mob justice I’ll take my chances that someone verbalizes or even thinks, when the mind readers come online, something deemed taboo. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/388 "2018-12-14T02:50:33Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Would you want to be accused of something and have it by chance become one of those stories that go viral? You have that much faith in your fellow sentient critter? What I want is irrelevant. If someone is famous, stories about credible allegations will get out. There’s nothing that can or should be done to stop that. All we can and should do is treat such allegations (and accusers) with seriousness and compassion. ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/389 "2018-12-14T02:52:12Z")
I have very little faith in my fellow sentient critters. My experience has been that no small number of them are willing to actively harm me if given the opportunity. And I absolutely DO NOT trust them to give me a fair shake in an investigation, especially since so many of the writers here don’t seem to care about fairness or due process. Yes, I know, you people keep saying that you do, but I don’t believe you. I once even had a significant other threaten to make a false abuse accusation _precisely_ because she knew it would ruin my career. (I was in the Army with a security clearance.) She didn’t follow through on the threat, and I wasn’t going to stay in that relationship long enough for her to change her mind. I’ll take my experience over your words any day of the week. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/390 "2018-12-14T03:03:50Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Since I’m not a fan of large scale and long lasting social ostracism as a form of mob justice I’ll take my chances that someone verbalizes or even thinks, when the mind readers come online, something deemed taboo. Can you link to any stories of this “long lasting social ostracism” for someone that was later shown to be falsely accused? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/391 "2018-12-14T07:17:03Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > What I’m saying is that this is exactly what people here are wishing for, and what would actually happen if they were listened to. They want a low bar for social consequences in case of rape accusations. Stating that it would only hurt “reputation”. Once again, would _you_ hire, date, be friend with someone you assume is a rapist? Please answer that. If then everybody was assuming that an accused is actually a rapist, what do you think would happen to them? Why do you think that people accused of rape keep a spouse, a job, etc…if not because some people around them _don’t_ assume any accusation to be true? > > And as for rape accusation being so consequence-free : do you seriously believe that if people googling your name were finding “accused of being a rapist”, even in the way things are now, your prospects for dates and jobs would stay the same? Please answer to that too. > Finally, what I described does happen. In a previous thread about social lynching by internet, I pointed at the example of this guy who was fired the next day, and was unable to find another job for several fucking years, and lost everything and eventually everyone. His crime? He had talked badly to a young minimal wage employee of some corporation while he was protesting their anti-gay policies. His life was totally destroyed by this. And you think it couldn’t happen to someone considered a rapist? The internet mob can now destroy anybody’s life for the flimsiest reason. Then why don’t you find me even one single fucking example of this thing you’re so terrified about? 🙂 You are consistently misreprenting my position, as well as the positions of others. We keep telling you, you keep doing it. We keep giving you the reasons why reality doesn’t work the way you’re terrified it will, and you keep coming back with, “Well, what if it actually does?” It gets dull. If there were credible rape allegations against me I expect it would harm me. I’m okay with that, because credible accusations of rape almost always indicate an actual case of rape. And I will gladly take the world where I have to be worried about obscenely rare credible (note this word, it’s important) false accusations than the world where a rapist is the president, another two sexual abusers are on SCOTUS, and victims of sexual assault almost never face justice. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/392 "2018-12-14T10:27:37Z")
Or hell, to name another example, an acquaintance of mine, Yikarur, was banned from the german smash community for, basically, being a gross creep. Given that this is a gaming community with maybe three women in all of Germany, and that he was kind of a big deal in the scene, you can imagine that things got pretty bad before he got the boot. He’s currently back as one of the leading TOs in Germany. Despite this easily being traced back to his real name (indeed, I have little doubt he literally puts “runs smash tournaments” on his resumes), he suffered absolutely no consequences outside of this niche group. So your fears don’t match up with my experiences or the available evidence. Why are you so scared? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/393 "2018-12-14T12:14:36Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > When do you have time to actually do the work that I assume the company is paying you to do? This answer is both ludicrous and off topic. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/394 "2018-12-14T12:20:20Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > You know a guy who was accused of rape is currently a Supreme Court Justice, right? You might have heard about it. You keep ignoring my point, don’t you? So, again : if everybody was following the concept advocated (using a low bar of evidence, like assuming an accusation to be true, for social, as opposed to legal, consequences) what would be the consequences for the alleged rapist, in your opinion? And again : would you be friend with a rapist, hire a rapist, date a rapist? ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/395 "2018-12-14T12:27:27Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > What you’re not getting is that **commenting on a co-worker’s appearance is _by default_ inappropriate** , even if you didn’t say anything explicitly sexual. > > Commenting on a male co-worker’s appearance is by default inappropriate too. Not in my experience. I can’t fathom why you would think this. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/396 "2018-12-14T12:28:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Maybe not your interpretation, but words and phrases can mean different things in different contexts and to different people . I’m sorry, but since when the common meaning of “believe” isn’t > [@dictionary](#): > > Accept that (something) is true, especially without proof. What you’re talking about isn’t “believing”, it’s “taking seriously”. If it’s what you mean, then maybe you should write “taking seriously” instead of “believing”. Besides, people in this thread have clearly expressed their opinion that women should be believed in the common sense of the word. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/397 "2018-12-14T12:29:26Z")
Spotted on Facebook: > [@](#): > > i’M aFrAiD of GetTInG fAlSely ACcuSeD > > I’m afraid of walking anywhere alone. I’m afraid of going to my car late at night. I’m afraid to take an Uber alone. I’m afraid of getting too close to older men. Your fear of facing claims doesn’t match up to the fear girls feel just living. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/398 "2018-12-14T12:35:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is a continuous misunderstanding of the #MeToo position. It’s not accusation = guilt; it’s been explained many times. Because you think that #MeToo has a single, official, position, strictly enforced and followed by every supporter and that just happens to be identical to yours? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/399 "2018-12-14T12:37:19Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Because you think that #MeToo has a single, official, position, strictly enforced and followed by every supporter and that just happens to be identical to yours? The people _you are arguing with here_ take that position. If you run into other people elsewhere who argue that any rape claim should be believed without question, maybe you should use the arguments you keep using against us on them, because we’ll keep telling you, _accurately_, that that is not our position. You are arguing with ghosts. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626/400 "2018-12-14T12:47:32Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > What you’re talking about isn’t “believing”, it’s “taking seriously”. If it’s what you mean, then maybe you should write “taking seriously” instead of “believing”. > [@JB99](#): > > I once even had a significant other threaten to make a false abuse accusation _precisely_ because she knew it would ruin my career. (I was in the Army with a security clearance.) She didn’t follow through on the threat, and I wasn’t going to stay in that relationship long enough for her to change her mind. …a question for you clairobscur: do you believe JB99 when he says that he had a significant other threaten to make a false allegation? A “yes” or a “no” will suffice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metoo-backlash-is-hurting-women-bloomberg-article/825626.md?page=21)