#MeToo backlash is hurting women (Bloomberg article)

This is a continuous misunderstanding of the #MeToo position. It’s not accusation = guilt; it’s been explained many times.

When people break the law, legal action is an appropriate response. That’s why the law was passed. It may not be a first response but it certainly should be one when someone implements a discriminatory policy in hiring.

The CEO in question is acting like a jerk. These may not be the first words out of my mouth but if he refuses to act on it I wouldn’t have a problem saying it. Reasoning is good, but in the scenario given he knows what he’s doing and appears to be only concerned with himself.

What do you propose doing to change this CEO’s mind?

I will when you stop bragging about, and actually stop, harassing women.

Would you want to be accused of something and have it by chance become one of those stories that go viral? You have that much faith in your fellow sentient critter?

Would you want to be sexually harassed and know that unless you have it on video that there’s a large percentage of the population that will dismiss your claim outright? You have that little faith in your fellow sentient critter?

You know a guy who was accused of rape is currently a Supreme Court Justice, right? You might have heard about it.

Since I’m not a fan of large scale and long lasting social ostracism as a form of mob justice I’ll take my chances that someone verbalizes or even thinks, when the mind readers come online, something deemed taboo.

What I want is irrelevant. If someone is famous, stories about credible allegations will get out. There’s nothing that can or should be done to stop that. All we can and should do is treat such allegations (and accusers) with seriousness and compassion.

I have very little faith in my fellow sentient critters. My experience has been that no small number of them are willing to actively harm me if given the opportunity. And I absolutely DO NOT trust them to give me a fair shake in an investigation, especially since so many of the writers here don’t seem to care about fairness or due process.

Yes, I know, you people keep saying that you do, but I don’t believe you.

I once even had a significant other threaten to make a false abuse accusation precisely because she knew it would ruin my career. (I was in the Army with a security clearance.) She didn’t follow through on the threat, and I wasn’t going to stay in that relationship long enough for her to change her mind.

I’ll take my experience over your words any day of the week.

Can you link to any stories of this “long lasting social ostracism” for someone that was later shown to be falsely accused?

Then why don’t you find me even one single fucking example of this thing you’re so terrified about? :slight_smile:

You are consistently misreprenting my position, as well as the positions of others. We keep telling you, you keep doing it. We keep giving you the reasons why reality doesn’t work the way you’re terrified it will, and you keep coming back with, “Well, what if it actually does?” It gets dull.

If there were credible rape allegations against me I expect it would harm me. I’m okay with that, because credible accusations of rape almost always indicate an actual case of rape. And I will gladly take the world where I have to be worried about obscenely rare credible (note this word, it’s important) false accusations than the world where a rapist is the president, another two sexual abusers are on SCOTUS, and victims of sexual assault almost never face justice.

Or hell, to name another example, an acquaintance of mine, Yikarur, was banned from the german smash community for, basically, being a gross creep. Given that this is a gaming community with maybe three women in all of Germany, and that he was kind of a big deal in the scene, you can imagine that things got pretty bad before he got the boot.

He’s currently back as one of the leading TOs in Germany. Despite this easily being traced back to his real name (indeed, I have little doubt he literally puts “runs smash tournaments” on his resumes), he suffered absolutely no consequences outside of this niche group.

So your fears don’t match up with my experiences or the available evidence. Why are you so scared?

This answer is both ludicrous and off topic.

You keep ignoring my point, don’t you?

So, again : if everybody was following the concept advocated (using a low bar of evidence, like assuming an accusation to be true, for social, as opposed to legal, consequences) what would be the consequences for the alleged rapist, in your opinion?

And again : would you be friend with a rapist, hire a rapist, date a rapist?

Not in my experience. I can’t fathom why you would think this.

I’m sorry, but since when the common meaning of “believe” isn’t

What you’re talking about isn’t “believing”, it’s “taking seriously”. If it’s what you mean, then maybe you should write “taking seriously” instead of “believing”.

Besides, people in this thread have clearly expressed their opinion that women should be believed in the common sense of the word.

Spotted on Facebook:

Because you think that #MeToo has a single, official, position, strictly enforced and followed by every supporter and that just happens to be identical to yours?

The people you are arguing with here take that position. If you run into other people elsewhere who argue that any rape claim should be believed without question, maybe you should use the arguments you keep using against us on them, because we’ll keep telling you, accurately, that that is not our position. You are arguing with ghosts.

…a question for you clairobscur: do you believe JB99 when he says that he had a significant other threaten to make a false allegation? A “yes” or a “no” will suffice.