# Metric System in US - comments **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [July 3, 2007, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metric-system-in-us-comments/410360 "2007-07-03T15:40:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metric-system-in-us-comments/410360/82 "2007-07-23T21:24:23Z")
Heck, up here in metric-loving Canada, supermarket flyers routinely hawk goods by the pound, becuase 99¢/lb looks cheaper then $2.18/kg. The latter (though equivalent) value is typically in much smaller print, if it’s included at all. And you can buy 2x4s down at the lumberyard. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metric-system-in-us-comments/410360/83 "2007-07-23T21:46:18Z")
That NASA thing surprised me when i first heard about it because I assumed NASA was completely metric a long time ago. That wasn’t the fault of two systems. It was the fault of an engineer who was an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2007, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metric-system-in-us-comments/410360/84 "2007-07-24T01:01:59Z")
[QUOTE=dropzone] That NASA thing surprised me when i first heard about it because I assumed NASA was completely metric a long time ago. That wasn’t the fault of two systems. It was the fault of an engineer who was an idiot. [/QUOTE] Except that the whole point to Murphy’s “Law” is that you shouldn’t have engineering systems that can have something bad happen. Using two different systems of measurement ensures that somewhere, sometime, someone will screw it up. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2007, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metric-system-in-us-comments/410360/85 "2007-07-24T11:47:43Z")
[QUOTE=John W. Kennedy] “English System” is the genus. “US System” and “Imperial System” are the two chief species. [/QUOTE] I’m not sure that’s quite correct. The term ‘English System’ is almost exclusively an American one. The Imperial System didn’t descend from, and isn’t a subset of, anything called _The English System_ - it’s the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2007, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metric-system-in-us-comments/410360/86 "2007-07-24T14:54:24Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] Using two different systems of measurement ensures that somewhere, sometime, someone will screw it up. :smack: [/QUOTE] That’s the thing–I’m as stuck in the old system as anybody but even I can’t imagine why anybody at NASA or any of its subcontractors would use anything but metric! That he even thought that it was acceptable to not leave his inches and pounds at the front gate is unfathomable. Cripes-a-mighty, doesn’t even the US Army think in kilos, meters, and clicks? ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metric-system-in-us-comments/410360/87 "2007-07-25T01:23:08Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] I’m not sure that’s quite correct. The term ‘English System’ is almost exclusively an American one. The Imperial System didn’t descend from, and isn’t a subset of, anything called _The English System_ - it’s the other way around. [/QUOTE] Different people in different places use “English System” to refer to a great many things, including, stupidly, the Imperial System. But “English System” continues to be the collective name for the US System, the Imperial System, and the mess of semi-compatible systems that prevailed in English-speaking countries before the US and Imperial systems were adopted. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metric-system-in-us-comments/410360/88 "2007-07-25T08:02:43Z")
[QUOTE=John W. Kennedy] Different people in different places use “English System” to refer to a great many things, including, stupidly, the Imperial System. But “English System” continues to be the collective name for the US System, the Imperial System, and the mess of semi-compatible systems that prevailed in English-speaking countries before the US and Imperial systems were adopted. [/QUOTE] Yes, but the point is that it’s predominantly an American term used for something that was imported, _after it was imported_ - like French fries - I don’t think they were ever widely called that in France. To describe the terms as genus and species implies some kind of descent or hierarchical inheritance, but the Imperial system did not descend from something called _the English system_ - it was the other way around. If anything, the Imperial system is the genus and the things called _the US system_ and _the English system_ are the species, along with _the Imperial system_ of today (which differs from its same-named ancestor), which happen to have discarded the term ‘Imperial’, for perhaps obvious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metric-system-in-us-comments/410360/89 "2007-07-25T08:43:01Z")
[QUOTE=LionsRest] Being all-metric might very well have saved NASA $125M… In 1999 NASA lost a $125 million Mars orbiter. It crashed into the red planet because some engineers had calculated thrust in metric units while others had used English units. I was taught metric in school, and told to expect it to become the standard. When I bought my first motor vehicle, it was all metric. It was a 1971 Suzuki 350cc street bike. I loved working on it, partially because I was able to glance at bolt heads, nuts, allen screws, etc. and usually determine the size exactly. To this day, it’s far easier for me to estimate a metric bolt head size than an English equivalent. I have, since 1971, hated America’s intransigence regarding the metric system. [/QUOTE] When Mars made it very close approach a few years back I went to the Griffith observatory. A scientist from JPL made a presentation. He was wearing a t-shirt that read: **1 mile = 1.6093Km Hit the planet, win a prize** 😃 As far as glancing at bolt heads go, 13 and 14mm are very close to the same distance apart as 1/2" and 9/16", so :dubious: With that said however, when you actually measure things, metric is way easier. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Them](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/898d66/32.png) [@The\_Them](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Them)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metric-system-in-us-comments/410360/90 "2007-07-25T10:16:03Z")
I percieve the units as I have experienced them. For fluids, I use gallons(milk, gasoline). But fluid ounces mean nothing to me; I have to put them into ml(~30ml/oz)to understand. Solid ounces are also meaningless; they’re either avoirdupois(~28g; a quarter is 7g and costs a lot for the good stuff) or Troy(31.103g). Because I handle such things, I know what they are, like miles. There may well be surviving pharmacists who think in terms of drams and scruples. We who use these units will die off, and metric will win because it’s more efficient for industrial purposes, and we all know how important it is to be efficient. 😉 That said, I don’t think it’s really a problem. As The Master said, metrification will take place on an as-needed basis, and the need isn’t there. When all the machines made with English specs are worn out and junked, the whole thing will be forgotten… ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metric-system-in-us-comments/410360/91 "2007-07-25T13:40:25Z")
[QUOTE=The Them] But fluid ounces mean nothing to me; I have to put them into ml(~30ml/oz)to understand. [/quote] Easy-peasy. I can explain it so that even Lindsay Lohan can visualize it. One fluid ounce is a shot and 1-1/2 fluid ounces is a jigger. > [@](#): > > Solid ounces are also meaningless; they’re either avoirdupois(~28g; a quarter is 7g and costs a lot for the good stuff) If I catch your drift you already have an ounce avoirdupois visualized: one lid, and can do a quick hand estimation that the lid is light or heavy. That skill can keep you from getting cheated or beat up. > [@](#): > > When all the machines made with English specs are worn out and junked, the whole thing will be forgotten… I’m not so sure. Watching the coverage of flooding in Oxford a representative if the Royal Army pegged the water level as being six inches from breaching the levee and a student, one of young England’s best and brightest and presumably most metricated, said the water on his ground floor was one and a half inches deep. Not just Imperial, but FRACTIONAL Imperial! It’s going to be a while. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metric-system-in-us-comments/410360/92 "2007-07-25T13:53:19Z")
[NITPICK]: No such thing as the “Royal Army” - Royal Navy, Royal Air Force but no Royal Army [/NITPICK] ps I’m with the rest of them around here - the river is a couple of inches from the top of the bank but the floods are about a metre deep 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metric-system-in-us-comments/410360/93 "2007-07-25T14:14:07Z")
Okay, from now on the British Army will be the Redcoats, the RN will be the Jolly Jack Tars, and the RAF will be the guys with funny moustaches. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metric-system-in-us-comments/410360/94 "2007-07-25T14:39:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Easy-peasy. I can explain it so that even Lindsay Lohan can visualize it. One fluid ounce is a shot and 1-1/2 fluid ounces is a jigger. Officially, maybe, but I’ve seen a lot of two-ounce shot glasses. Plus an eight-ounce shot glass, once, but that was an obvious gag. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metric-system-in-us-comments/410360/95 "2007-07-25T18:27:33Z")
You drink in better places than I. Best I could hope for was the publican getting distracted as he poured so I’d unbutton an extra button. Sure, they’re manboobs, and not especially appealing ones, but a distraction is a distraction. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Them](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/898d66/32.png) [@The\_Them](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Them)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metric-system-in-us-comments/410360/96 "2007-07-25T19:08:42Z")
Yipe, dropzone! Actually, I think some of it is semantics. A bottle is a fifth, even though it’s really 750ml, and says “fifth” nowhere on the product. We’re well along a transition to metric anyway, it’s just been so gradual it doesn’t seem like it. The only metric measure that’s a law, I think, is one mandating metric measures next to English ones on food products, and I’m not sure that’s not more of a suggestion than a rule. A lot of the screwier units are esoteric, and can be safely ignored (a bushel) Unless you work in that field. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metric-system-in-us-comments/410360/97 "2007-07-25T19:15:57Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] Yes, but the point is that it’s predominantly an American term used for something that was imported, _after it was imported_ - like French fries - I don’t think they were ever widely called that in France. To describe the terms as genus and species implies some kind of descent or hierarchical inheritance, but the Imperial system did not descend from something called _the English system_ - it was the other way around. If anything, the Imperial system is the genus and the things called _the US system_ and _the English system_ are the species, along with _the Imperial system_ of today (which differs from its same-named ancestor), which happen to have discarded the term ‘Imperial’, for perhaps obvious reasons. [/QUOTE] No, that, at least, is absolutely false. The Imperial System was not devised until 1824, and _does_ descend from a somewhat chaotic state of affairs for which “English System” is the only name. And “Imperial System” is still the official name, as witness, for example, the NPL website. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metric-system-in-us-comments/410360.md?page=4)