# Metro/subway platform screen doors
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metro-subway-platform-screen-doors/1008961
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [October 18, 2024, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metro-subway-platform-screen-doors/1008961 "2024-10-18T21:17:32Z")
**Posts on this page:** 14
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2024, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metro-subway-platform-screen-doors/1008961/21 "2024-10-21T11:13:58Z")
On the London Underground the only lines that have those barriers are the newest ones, the Jubilee and Elizabeth lines. The DLR may do as well, I haven’t been on it in years.
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### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2024, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metro-subway-platform-screen-doors/1008961/22 "2024-10-21T11:53:46Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#):
>
> Yeah, I thought about mentioning the bumps. Still pretty meagre “protection” for a distracted person in a hurry wrassling a briefcase and umbrella in inclement weather, within just a few feet of 50 ton train passing at 60 MPH…
The yellow bump strips are for the visually impaired, not the perpetually distracted. For people with very blurry vision, the wide yellow strip provides a distinct visual contrast between the edge of the platform and the tracks down below; for people who use a cane to feel/sweep out their path because the are blind (or nearly so), they will notice those bumps rattling their cane before they get too close to the edge of the platform. If a person with normal vision is so distracted by their cell phone that they would stumble into a water fountain in a shopping mall, then yellow bump strips aren’t going to do anything to prevent them from walking off the edge of a train platform.
> [@Dinsdale](#):
>
> My dad was a printing machinist. I remember him marveling over the fact that commuter train platforms had no protection other than a yellow line separating commuters from passing trains. OTOH, other than some sympathy for what I suspect is a very small number of people who are pushed in front of trains, absent derailments, in 100% of train/pedestrian accidents, the train is where it is supposed to be…
In the major cities that I’ve visited in Japan, most of the busier urban platforms are equipped with the doors that only open when a train is stopped there. In most cases, they’re only about chest-high; that’s enough to prevent baby strollers, distracted tourists and drunk salarymen from tumbling off the edge of the platform, and probably also prevents some of the less motivated suicide-prone individuals. I’ve seen one station in Kyoto where the wall at the edge of the platform goes all the way up to the ceiling, meaning nobody is getting onto the tracks at all, no matter how suicidal they may be.
The suburban train stations I’ve seen in Japan don’t have any kind of divider/door; if you step in the wrong place, you fall off the platform. But the really scary thing is that many of these stations have freight trains or express passenger trains that don’t stop there: they come roaring through at 70 MPH. Standing on the platform, the sudden wind and noise can catch you off-guard, and if you stumble at the wrong moment, you’re likely to lose body parts even if you don’t fall off of the platform.
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### Author:  [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2024, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metro-subway-platform-screen-doors/1008961/23 "2024-10-21T13:42:21Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#):
>
> But the really scary thing is that many of these stations have freight trains or express passenger trains that don’t stop there:
Yep - same w/ commuter rail in suburban Chicago. Most - but not all - have 3 sets of tracks, so the expresses generally - not always - pass on the center track.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2024, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metro-subway-platform-screen-doors/1008961/24 "2024-10-21T22:33:23Z")
When I was in the Philadelphia area (Villanova U), I would often get on the regional rail (SEPTA) at the station on campus, go downtown to get on Amtrak, and then go right back through the campus station again at full speed. And the only way from one side of the station (or of the campus) to the other was to walk across the tracks.
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### Author:  [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2024, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metro-subway-platform-screen-doors/1008961/25 "2024-10-21T22:46:59Z")
> [@Mark\_Finn](#):
>
> Montreal’s Metro has at least one suicide attempt every week … [Snip.]
Toronto’s subway has an average of one a day. They’re not publicized, naturally. But an old friend operated subway trains in Toronto for many years, and that was his response when I asked him. Thankfully, he never encountered a suicide while operating a train, but he heard about all of them.
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### Author:  [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2024, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metro-subway-platform-screen-doors/1008961/26 "2024-10-22T05:21:29Z")
In 2001-23 on the Australian heavy rail networks there were 2,334 fatalities, or about 2 per week, about 70% of which were suicides and the rest misadventure / carelessness / accidents / stupid. Not big in global terms but suggesting platform screens will contribute to saving lives.
I can’t find a cite but there is a distressingly high percentage of train drivers involved when they are in the cabin when someone decides to suicide or slips from a platform and they have no way of avoiding impact. Something that will go with you throughout your career.
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### Author:  [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2024, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metro-subway-platform-screen-doors/1008961/27 "2024-10-22T17:40:24Z")
Suburban commuter rail like Chicago’s Metra are not really the use-case for platform barriers/doors. They don’t have level boarding, so the platforms are only about a foot above grade, and they often have grade crossings that are harder to block off. Their less frequent headways also reduces risk. Heavy metro/subway systems like the ‘L’ or London Underground do have level boarding, so anyone who gets onto the tracks (intentionally or not) has a much harder time getting back up to the platform without assistance, less time to do so, and they’re also dodging the electrified third rail too.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2024, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metro-subway-platform-screen-doors/1008961/28 "2024-10-22T23:26:52Z")
> [@Spoons](#):
>
> Toronto’s subway has an average of one a day. They’re not publicized, naturally. But an old friend operated subway trains in Toronto for many years, and that was his response when I asked him. Thankfully, he never encountered a suicide while operating a train, but he heard about all of them.
That sounds implausible, to me… How many train operators are there in the Toronto system? At one suicide attempt per day, you’d expect that the mean time between attempts for any given driver wouldn’t be all that long.
> [@jjakucyk](#):
>
> Heavy metro/subway systems like the ‘L’ or London Underground do have level boarding, so anyone who gets onto the tracks (intentionally or not) has a much harder time getting back up to the platform without assistance, less time to do so, and they’re also dodging the electrified third rail too.
Which is why, around here, they tell you not to try to get back up on top of the platform. Instead, if you find yourself on the rails, you’re supposed to get under the platform.
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### Author:  [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2024, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metro-subway-platform-screen-doors/1008961/29 "2024-10-22T23:44:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> That sounds implausible, to me… How many train operators are there in the Toronto system? At one suicide attempt per day, you’d expect that the mean time between attempts for any given driver wouldn’t be all that long.
There are about 120 train sets, figure 500 odd drivers?
> **[Toronto subway rolling stock](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_subway_rolling_stock)**
>
> The Toronto subway system's rolling stock consists of 880 subway cars for Line 1 Yonge–University, Line 2 Bloor–Danforth, and Line 4 Sheppard. The rolling stock is owned and maintained by the Toronto Transit Commission (TTC).
> All active TTC subway cars are equipped with flip-up seats located in each car (near the operator's cab), which can accommodate mobility devices such as wheelchairs, strollers, scooters, and bicycles. The new Toronto Rocket trains have two designated areas in each car wi...
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2024, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metro-subway-platform-screen-doors/1008961/30 "2024-10-23T01:32:58Z")
Yeah, “a few hundred” was about what I was guesstimating, too. Which means that any given driver would have in the vicinity of one per year. Might be more or less, but you’d still expect someone who’d been doing the job for “many years” to have seen at least one.
On the other hand, with the way word of mouth works, you’d also expect that the number of incidents that drivers hear about would be a lot higher than the number that actually happen.
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### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2024, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metro-subway-platform-screen-doors/1008961/31 "2024-10-23T02:06:20Z")
Some data here, “Suicide on the Toronto Transit Commission subway system in Canada (1998–2021): a time-series analysis”:
[https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanam/article/PIIS2667-193X(24)00081-4/fulltext](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanam/article/PIIS2667-193X(24)00081-4/fulltext)
They’re a bit sloppy on terminology in the summary (I didn’t read the main body), but they claim that between 1998 and 2021, there were 302 suicides (it sounds like “suicide” here means either a death or a failed attempt). That’s 12-13 per year.
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### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2024, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metro-subway-platform-screen-doors/1008961/32 "2024-10-23T17:23:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> Which is why, around here, they tell you not to try to get back up on top of the platform. Instead, if you find yourself on the rails, you’re supposed to get under the platform.
[Here](http://www.exploremarmaris.com/read/Survival/How%20to%20Survive%20a%20Fall%20onto%20Subway%20Tracks.pdf) is a list of options for surviving a fall off of the platform. Refuge under the platform is low on the list, but I think I would prefer trying that to some of the higher suggestions.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [October 24, 2024, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metro-subway-platform-screen-doors/1008961/33 "2024-10-24T00:56:38Z")
Note that that’s general advice meant to be applicable anywhere, and so they’re right to note that there may or may not be enough space under the platforms in any given transit system. The folks who put up the signs around here saying to get under the platform, though, are the transit system themselves, and of course they know that their own platforms have space under them.
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### Author:  [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)
#### Post date: [October 24, 2024, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/metro-subway-platform-screen-doors/1008961/34 "2024-10-24T09:12:22Z")
The London Underground seems to do pretty well by comparison.
> Between 2000 and 2010 there were 644 recorded suicide attempts on the London Underground. The mean annual rate of suicide attempts during this period was 5.8 per 100 million journey stages (95% CI 5.0–6.5). Between 2004 and 2010 there were 132 deaths by suicide. The mean annual rate of individuals who died by suicide during this period was 1.8 per 100 million journey stages (95% CI 1.4–2.2). In addition, there were 38 deaths in which the coroner recorded an open verdict and 9 deaths in which the inquest had not yet taken place or in which the British Transport Police did not have access to the outcome of the verdict. The total number of ‘person under train’ incidents between 2000 and 2010, which included both intentional and accidental acts, was 433. The mean annual rate of ‘person under train’ incidents during this period was 3.9 per 100 million journey stages (95% CI 3.6–4.2).
[Suicide patterns on the London Underground railway system, 2000–2010 - PMC](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5623887/)
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