Mexican Spanish

[ChicanoRojo]

@Sapo

Spoken like a true fan

Got me. As a matter of fact, yesterday there was big game for Copa Libertadores in Argentina between Boca Jrs. vs Velez. Had no problem. Sure. All the stereotypical argentinismos by the commentators and the player. But. Very understandable. Of course, something that I was reminded by listening to the players is the influence of the italian cadence in the Spanish.

[ChicanoRojo]

@Nava

To me, “Castellano” is either the dialect spoken in Valladolid (definitely not in Mexico), in which case I’d translate it as “Castillian Spanish”, or the Spanish language including all its dialects (definitely spoken in Mexico), in which case I’d translate it as plain “Spanish”. What would you consider “non-Castillian Spanish”?

Well. Yes. I agree with nit pick. We speak Castillian Spanish, but at least in Mexico, when someone speaks in a language we don’t understand or we don’t understand them period, we say “Hablame en Castellano!” ("Speak to me in Castillian!). Now. In public school, we were taught that were learning Castellano as a way to differentiate from Catalan, Valenciano, Vascuence, Gallego, etc. Which is what we would call “non-Castillian Spanish.” But. Yes. In Mexico, we say we speak Spanish. If more technical, Español Castellano.

[Elendil_s_Heir]

@Scumpup

… The kids understood me perfectly well but laughed at the “Castillian accent.” When I asked them why they found it funny they said “you sound like a joto!”

What’s a “joto”?

[ChicanoRojo]

@Elendil's Heir

What’s a “joto”?

Slur for homosexual.

[ChicanoRojo]

@Scumpup

I had a couple years of Spanish in high school and then a couple more in college. All my teachers taught Castillian dialect. I was reasonably fluent in it when I moved to Laredo TX to teach. The kids understood me perfectly well but laughed at the “Castillian accent.” When I asked them why they found it funny they said “you sound like a joto!”

Where were you taught Castillian dialect? I was raised in Laredo, Texas. The ones that got the brunt of their Spanish accent were either recent immigrants from south Mexico or upper-middle class Mexicans with their particular accent.

[Polycarp]

Mil gracias, Nava, para la historia!

Seconding what Chicano Rojo said, it’s been my experience speaking with people from a number of American republics that Castellano is used synonymously with Español, sort of as a claim that “The Spanish we speak here is pure, not like those guys across the border with their own local accent.” (Which is humorous when you can hear a clear mid-Mexican or Costa Rican accent in the speech of the people making the claim.)

(Which reminds me of the elderly Texan lady interviewed in 1964 who thought that “it’s wonderful that we finally have a President who doesn’t speak with an accent.” :D)

[Scumpup]

@ChicanoRojo

Where were you taught Castillian dialect? I was raised in Laredo, Texas. The ones that got the brunt of their Spanish accent were either recent immigrants from south Mexico or upper-middle class Mexicans with their particular accent.

Pennsylvania. FWIW, the Spanish teachers in that School system (UISD, ca. 1988) complained that our students spoke two languages poorly.

[Nava]

@Scumpup

I had a couple years of Spanish in high school and then a couple more in college. All my teachers taught Castillian dialect. I was reasonably fluent in it when I moved to Laredo TX to teach. The kids understood me perfectly well but laughed at the “Castillian accent.” When I asked them why they found it funny they said “you sound like a joto!”

The father of one of my Colombian coworkers was from Sevilla (the coworker from Barranquilla). The son spent a summer at Grandma’s when he was 15. First shock: he’d always known his Papá talked different than other people in town, but now he found himself surrounded by people who talked like Papá only more. Second, his cousins kept laughing and him and accusing him of “copying how they talk on TV.” Fifteen years later he was still amazed that he spent a whole summer with them and they refused to believe it’s the way everybody in Barranquilla talks… heck, they refused to believe that the people on TV talked that way when not on TV! So of course he was pretty amused finding himself in the company of a bunch of northern-Spaniards who talked very much like he did

[liberty3701]

@acsenray

Generally, “code switching” refers to changing registers depending upon context. Mixing up Spanish and English with the same audience isn’t code switching.

No, actually, the “mixing” of Spanish and English while talking with the same audience is a classic example of code-switching. I don’t, off the top of my head, know the term you’re actually defining, perhaps it has to do with the Accommodation Model.

From Wikipedia

Code-switching is a term in linguistics referring to alternation between two or more languages, dialects, or language registers in a single conversation, stretch of discourse, or utterance between people who have more than one language in common.

On edit, I realize that wikipedia page is under contention, but I couldn’t find a better source that’s not in my book shelf. Perhaps the same term is used for both, but I assure you that that use of code switching for mixing two languages with the same interlocutors is totally kosher.

[Acsenray]

Is there any distinction made among (1) Castillian/Spanish/Castillian Spanish the international standardized dialect, (2) Castillian/Spanish/Castillian Spanish the (Spanish) national standardized dialect, and (3) Castillian/Castillian Spanish the regional dialect of Castile?

Perhaps the same term is used for both, but I assure you that that use of code switching for mixing two languages with the same interlocutors is totally kosher.

I still think that the mere adoption of words from one language into the habitual vernacular of another language can’t really be called code-switching. Even if I missed the mark with regard to the “which audience” part, “code switching” implies that there’s something more going on than merely adopting isolated words and phrases from another language into one’s own casual speech.

[ChicanoRojo]

@acsenray

Is there any distinction made among (1) Castillian/Spanish/Castillian Spanish the international standardized dialect, (2) Castillian/Spanish/Castillian Spanish the (Spanish) national standardized dialect, and (3) Castillian/Castillian Spanish the regional dialect of Castile?

FWIW, from wiki:

Some philologists use “Castilian” only when speaking of the language spoken in Castile during the Middle Ages, stating that it is preferable to use “Spanish” for its modern form. The subdialect of Spanish spoken in northern parts of modern day Castile is also called “Castilian” sometimes. This dialect differs from those of other regions of Spain (Andalusia or Madrid for example); the Castilian dialect is conventionally considered in Spain to be the same as standard Spanish.

If you know Spanish, Wiki on Castillian as a dialect.

[liberty3701]

@acsenray

I still think that the mere adoption of words from one language into the habitual vernacular of another language can’t really be called code-switching. Even if I missed the mark with regard to the “which audience” part, “code switching” implies that there’s something more going on than merely adopting isolated words and phrases from another language into one’s own casual speech.

After re-reading, the exact example in this thread is not really code-switching, true. It’s more of a borrowing. So, I think we agree. But code-switching can happen with the same interlocutors and even within the same phrase.