More proof that everybody’s got to be pissed off about something.
I should make that my sig.
I don’t mind if you’re personally offended by the term (see above re: everybody being pissed etc.), but please try to come up with a rationale for your offense that is at least historically and linguistically correct.
Jodi, even simpler than that is this: if yer gonna be offended, make sure you got yer facts straight;)
Absolutely correct, but your wording sounds weird, it sort of implies that “[the island] was part of the francophone world and not Spanish at all for the better part of its history”. The western side of Hispaniola has been in French/Haitian possesion for 306 yrs. counting from the Treaty of Rystwik of 1697. The eastern side it’s Hispanic.
The OP needs some geography AND some history lessons.
As a Spaniard, former US resident and current Dominican Republic denizen, I just wanted to tell the OP that he/she was clueless in Seattle (?)
For whatever reason, you’re trying really hard to distance Mexico from it’s Spanish (as in Español, from España) heritage, and it simply can’t be done. Good, bad, or indifferent, is a topic for another thread, but the fact remains that Spain’s historical and cultural legacy is as widespread as was her Empire. And I could make a good argument for beyond that. But not here.
Hell, don’t take my word for it. Just open a phonebook in any of our old dominions and see for yourself. I bet you’ll find no shortage of names such Lopez, Fernandez, Garcia, Alvarez, Perez, Gonzalez, etc. etc. What those people want to identify themselves as, is largely irrelevant to me and this conversation – it’s a personal choice, I have no beef with that. But make no mistake, somewhere close to the roots of their lineage you’ll find a Spaniard.
Yes, you’ll also find native names, as well as surnames from many other origins – increasingly so, as the world continues to shrink – and an amalgamation of many diferent cultures the closer you get to the bigger cities. But again, to attempt to distance Mexico from it’s Spanish legacy, as it seems you’re trying to do here, is as futile as covering the moon with your thumb. You’re only fooling yourself.
Makes me spit nails a little less than LULAC did when I was in High School, why?
“La Raza” is pretty common, I admit, but it always gave me the cold shivers. “The Race.” It’s always seemed, well, racist the way people used it. I had a friend who would spout off about “La Raza” and how the white people were pushing down his Mexican brothers.
It can be very affirming, I understand. Talk about a culture with a proud heritage…even so, it always made me cringe.
Point taken :). I was referring to Haiti of course, by trailing my comments after that particular country, but you’re right they could be easily misinterpreted as applying to the whole island. Should have either listed the DR after that parenthetical comment or just mentioned it in a separate sentence.
Just curious, Ninja, given your usages of Black/African-American (which, btw, is mine also–I use what those with whom I’m speaking prefer to describe them). Another btw: what’s LULAC?
PS-Just saw Mighty Girl’s comment to Tamerlane – whose historical knowledge I respect tremendously – and I also wanted to say that I agree with her. To say “Hispaniola, which, of course, was part of the francophone world and not Spanish at all for the better part of its history,” is quite inaccurate. Since the Discovery, Spain had an uninterrupted presence on the Eastern side of the island – what is now known as the Dominican Republic.
Y por cierto, MG, como estas? LTNS Es verdad que ganastes medalla de oro en karate en los Pana-Americanos? Y yo que te hacia en campaña 
Ooops! never mind – shoulda previewed, correction made. Tamerlane, please ignore my post.
Shouldn’t be too hard 
Not meaning to be a wet blanket, RedFury, but The Powers That Be are not especially thrilled when people post in other languages, IIRC. Basically it makes their jobs harder, since they have to then translate the text. Easy solution: post one yerself:)
[sub]Standard disclaimer about me not being a mod and such. YMMV, void where prohibited; accessories sold separately; disclaimer does not apply to any other offer; disclaimer may be redeemed at 1/20 of one cent.[/sub]
C’mom… they can use that Altavista translation thingamaboobie
Translation:
*And by the way, MG, like these? LTNS Is truth that ganastes gold medal in karate in the Pan-American ones? And I who you towards in campaign. *
Hee hee 
Oh, well in that case I have no problem with it. I mean, the mods have no trouble dealing with bj0rn, so that’s right up their alley;)
RedFury, I’m having a hard time figuring out how being from Spain and living in the Dominican Republic makes you an expert on Mexico. Culturally and ethnically, Mexico is a lot more indigenous than Spanish. The Spanish influence only shows up in superficial ways, like surnames.
That first sentence can be correct ( though certainly arguable ), without supporting the second, which I’d consider wrong.
Unless you consider Spanish Catholicism, the Spanish language, or any number of “lesser” cultural influences “superficial” ;). Mexico, like every other country in Spanish America, was heavily influenced by Spanish culture. I’m afraid to say otherwise is to perpetuate rank ignorance, IMHO.
To say that indigenous culture did not also have a very important ( whether it was almost as much, just as much, or considerably more ) influence on said countries, would also be rank ignorance. BOTH were and are significant.
Mexico is definitely not a clone of Spain, but it’s also not a clone of classical Tenochtitlan w/Spanish surnames.
For example legal precedents, inheritance, etc.
I do not see where he claimed to be an expert. He offered some information. . . which happens to be correct… . unlike yours:
Are you kidding? Lets see: Language: Spanish. Religion: Spanish. Legal system: Spanish. Ok, those are a few “superficial” aspects. I’m sorry if I can’t come up with the “essential” aspects in which Mexican culture is unaffected by Spanish culture. Maybe eating spicy food is one of them.
**
As am I. Because I never made that claim. Please refrain from putting words in my mouth – or post as the case may be.
I only mentioned my nationality and last two places of residence within the context framed by the OP. Namely, hispanics, for which I qualify, Hispaniola, where I currently reside, and the US, where I lived for many years. Odds are very good to excellent, that if the OP had written about the Inuit in Alaska, I wouldn’t have mentioned any of the above.
Go figure.
Read Tamerlane’s post. Then read it again. Not only because he has given you a succint and correct answer and it’s worth it, but because he is far more polite then I tend to be when fighting bullshi…ignorance.
Moreover, I never claimed, nor would I claim to know the exact % of influence Spanish heritage has on the current culture of any country Vs indigenous and/or other influences. I suppose I could go out and take a poll here, combine that with my own observations and come up with some sort of figure – but even then, I think it would mean little with all the variables involved.
What I do claim – strongly – is that Mexico’s current culture, in any sense I can make of the word, has most certainly been influenced by Spain.
Lastly, I would have jumped on exactly the same manner on someone, for example, making the claim that “Arabs/Romans left only superficial influence in Spain” or “England bis in US.” It’s ignorance borne out of a desire to distance oneself from something one – for whatever reason – dislikes. Best to deal with both the dislike and the ignorance as opposed to spreading revisionist bullshit.
Here is an example of a terribly ignorant OP, where the facts are remarkably 100% wrong…and our Doper community steps in and instead of destroying the person behind the post, provides great knowledge about the Hispanic world.
Fight on!
LULAC is the League of United Latin American Citizens. I don’t know what Little Plastic Ninja’s particular beef is with them, because they are hardly the most confrontational of the Hispanic organizations.
But they never really had a presence on my high school campus, that was mostly left up to NCLR and MEChA.
okay, I was wrong. I guess I get irritated when people suggest that there is no significant difference between Mexicans and other Hispanics. Mexicans may share a lot in common with other Hispanics, but their culture seems to retain a lot of indigenous, non-Spanish influences - at least it seems that way to me.