# Mhendo's suspension **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 28, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142 "2012-09-28T15:18:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142/21 "2012-09-28T16:42:34Z")
Czarcasm doesn’t really junior mod. He just quietly implies people are childish over-reacting dunces for disagreeing with the real mods. No rule against that! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@The\_Dord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Dord)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142/22 "2012-09-28T16:45:17Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > I’m not going to weigh in on the suspension, but will anything ever be done about **Czarcasm** ’s incessant junior modding? I see people get warned for calling him out over it, yet I’ve never seen anyone in power disparaging him for attempting to still do a job he no longer holds. This isn’t acceptable for the peanut gallery in general, so why is it okay for a former moderator? Just curious. It’s just wishful thinking that anything would’ve been done 😛 ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142/23 "2012-09-28T16:46:50Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s a very selective quoting of the post, which I’m quoting in full here. Maybe it’s just me, but the whole post actually makes it look \*less \*insulting. Anyway, it makes sense to suspend him for sending twicks messages saying “Fuck you,” but the original warning itself was utter, complete, unequivocal bullshit. All he did was point out Czar’s smug and irritating junior mod posting style. Oh shit, is this a personal insult too? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142/24 "2012-09-28T16:47:24Z")
Can I ask a clarifying question? mhendo’s suspension was, by moderator description, based on insulting language in a post toward another poster. It appears that “insulting” is debatable. It’s certainly debated. Is the principle in play really “insult”? I suspect the principle in play is “ad hominem”: attacking the person rather than the idea. In fact, I’ve seen that phrase in discussion of other banning or suspension actions. The nice thing about “ad hominem” is it’s not really a slippery subjective slope like “insult”. Ad hominem has a single clear objective standard: you attacked the poster, not the post. A post whose subject is the intentions, intelligence, heritage, or other characteristics of the opposing poster is ad hominem, period. Regardless of whether the post rises to the level of “insulting” or “fighting words.” Ad hominem is a worthless rhetorical technique. It’s a logical fallacy. It’s the second-to-last refuge of the incompetent. And it’s grammatically obvious. If the subject of the key sentences of the post is “you”, it’s ad-hominem. OK. Now, I’m sure this will get some flamage, because frankly, a lot of posters seem to want the right to fall back to ad hominem. But whether you acknowledge or not, it’s a low and cheap debating technique. It contributes heat but no light. Anyway: my point is, rather than calling it “insult”, can we use the actual rhetorical/forensic term “ad hominem”? ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142/25 "2012-09-28T16:47:46Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Nothing happens in a vacuum. _ **Czarcasm’s posting style in ATMB is inextricably linked to mhendo’s warnings and suspensions.** _ If you don’t create a space where all of those can be discussed in conjunction, you’re going to get bleed-through. This isn’t exactly rocket science and by the way, this thread is not for moderators to justify their poor calls. Start your own thread if you want to do that. Bolding and italics mine. Both warnings are NOT Czarcasm’s fault! :eek:😕**[CITE](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15511094#post15511094)**! I do not think threadshitting is acceptable at any time, whether or not **[the person](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=666003)** being verbally crapped on is doing things the way others would if they were in the person’s shoes! Edit: And please note, that is from a week ago, and the moderator (_not_ Twickster) who gave the warning ALSO got cussed out via PM. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142/26 "2012-09-28T16:52:30Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > Czarcasm is an apologist for every Mod action- you don’t have to be Nostradamus to follow that. We don’t have a rule against apologizing for us (it’d be difficult to make one work), although we do ask that people who think we’re great find a way to express themselves without junior modding or insulting other people. > [@](#): > > The warning given was unnecessary and the reaction was not surprising. Then he should’ve thought of a better way to disagree with the warning. No matter how “not surprising” the reaction was, it was completely inappropriate. If you repeatedly curse out the staff, your posting here is going to be curtailed. I don’t think that’s unexpected or unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142/27 "2012-09-28T16:55:58Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Maybe it’s just me, but the whole post actually makes it look \*less \*insulting. I think that probably is just you. 😉 > [@](#): > > All he did was point out Czar’s smug and irritating junior mod posting style. Oh shit, is this a personal insult too? Yes. Last chance: I will close this thread or start giving out warnings if people keep posting this kind of stuff in this forum. > [@gnoitall](#): > > mhendo’s suspension was, by moderator description, based on insulting language in a post toward another poster. No, it was based on his insults toward the mods after those warnings. It’s my fault if I wasn’t clear enough in making that distinction. > [@](#): > > Anyway: my point is, rather than calling it “insult”, can we use the actual rhetorical/forensic term “ad hominem”? They’re pretty much the same, and “insult” won’t require as much explanation and translation. So I think we’re going to stick with insult over ad hominem. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142/28 "2012-09-28T16:58:47Z")
I like **mhendo** very much. I think he is an intelligent and excellent poster and person, and I hope to see him back as soon as possible. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142/29 "2012-09-28T16:58:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes. Dumb. You people have completely loony ideas about what personal insults are, especially considering that’s some of the \*tamest \*shit I’ve seen in ATMB. It’s noon now. I’m getting a drink. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142/30 "2012-09-28T17:00:42Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m not sure people who curse out the staff have any expectations of confidentiality, but I think you’re going to have to take our word on it. Uh, yeah - that’s why I did, in fact, say “I’ll take your word for it”. > [@](#): > > That’s a very selective quoting of the post Not really - if anything it shines more light on the offensive portions of the post. If we’re drawing lines in the sand, are you really going to suggest that saying “you’re being condescending” is over it? Seriously? For it to be a personal attack, doesn’t it have to be both a) personal and b) an attack? Just because something is a shade negative doesn’t mean it’s an attack - if that’s going to be the rule, just assign BigT to be an administrator here and be done with it. ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142/31 "2012-09-28T17:10:00Z")
A lot of people are against the actions taken, just wanted to chime in and say that I think it was absolutely justified, that mhendo’s post was indeed over-the-top and absolutely insulting. Was glad to see a warning issued, it was appropriate. And no, czarcasm using the “pot” word as a kettle/black reference was not over-the-top and not at all in the same category as mhendo’s hatred frothing post. I think it’s obvious a lot of people are just looking to criticize czarcasm and twickster every chance they can. Let’s save the criticism for when it’s justified, try to be fair. Otherwise you’re only serving to discredit yourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142/32 "2012-09-28T17:10:37Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Just because something is a shade negative doesn’t mean it’s an attack If you think that’s “a shade negative,” you may have watched too many presidential campaign ads. 😉 Sorry, that’s not “a shade negative,” it’s a personal attack. There are three separate insulting comments in there if you want to get down to it: ‘You are self righteously condescending,’ ‘you should beg for your [mod] job back’ and ‘you have an unwarranted sense of superiority.’ Any of those individually would probably deserve a mod note, all three of them in one post is enough to justify a warning. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142/33 "2012-09-28T17:12:08Z")
How is “you should beg for your mod job back” insulting? ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142/34 "2012-09-28T17:19:23Z")
Amazingly, in my decade here, I’ve barely posted in a handful of threads about what TPTB do here. Very seldom has my opinion been one of criticism. However, it is impossible to ignore **Czarcasm** ’s junior modding. It’s noted in a ton of ATMB threads and is complained about left and right. If no one is actually going to address that based off of his past history, then what is the recourse for us members? Would you all suggest we report his posts every time we see him do this? If so, can we take it a step further and say that we’ve done so in the thread, thus perhaps encouraging others to do the same? Maybe then, do to sheer volume, TPTB would finally be compelled to apply the same rules for him that they do for everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142/35 "2012-09-28T17:20:30Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > How is “you should beg for your mod job back” insulting? What else would it be? If you don’t feel it’s insulting I doubt anything I say about it is going to matter, but I can’t think of ‘you should beg for your mod job back because you can’t get by without it’ as anything other than an insult. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142/36 "2012-09-28T17:21:40Z")
\*ad hominem : marked by or being an attack on an opponent’s character rather than by an answer to the contentions made insult : to treat with insolence, indignity, or contempt \* Ad hominem regards what is being said. Insult not only regards what, but how it is said. You can answer the contentions and still be insulting. The whole insult the post and not the poster is BS anyway. If direct insults aren’t allowed, then insulting one’s reasoning shouldn’t be either. It is wishful thinking that insulting someones thought process doesn’t insult them as well. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142/37 "2012-09-28T17:30:14Z")
I do not believe that mods should have to put up with abuse. I agreed completely when discussions of mod actions were removed from the Pit. So I can understand the reason for action against him if he was abusive. But the original warning was horribly stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142/38 "2012-09-28T17:32:15Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Amazingly, in my decade here, I’ve barely posted in a handful of threads about what TPTB do here. Very seldom has my opinion been one of criticism. However, it is impossible to ignore **Czarcasm** ’s junior modding. It’s noted in a ton of ATMB threads and is complained about left and right. If no one is actually going to address that based off of his past history, then what is the recourse for us members? Would you all suggest we report his posts every time we see him do this? If so, can we take it a step further and say that we’ve done so in the thread, thus perhaps encouraging others to do the same? Maybe then, do to sheer volume, TPTB would finally be compelled to apply the same rules for him that they do for everyone else. Something will be done. It will be ignored like its not happening. That’s something. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142/39 "2012-09-28T17:33:44Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I do not believe that mods should have to put up with abuse. I agreed completely when discussions of mod actions were removed from the Pit. So I can understand the reason for action against him if he was abusive. > > But the original warning was horribly stupid. He was warned twice in a week though! Go look at the announcement yourself? The first warning was warrented, and it wasn’t given by **twickster**. BOTH moderators got abusive PMs from **Mhendo** as well. Edit: You are all focusing on **czarcasm** , and your dislike of his junior modding, and not seeing the rest of the events that more heavily contributed to this suspension. Why not start up a topic to discuss the junior modding? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142/40 "2012-09-28T17:34:05Z")
So now it’s against the rules to say anything even slightly negative about a post or a poster outside the Pit? We can’t say we think someone is being self-righteous and condescending? That’s not an insult, it’s a description of behavior. Suspension because of “abusive” PM’s doesn’t fly either. Sticks and stones, ya know? Don’t read them, block them, take away the poster’s PM privileges, whatever. But suspending someone for something they said in private? That’s chickenshit. Oh wait. I guess “chickenshit” should have been in the Pit. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mhendos-suspension/636142.md?page=3)