# MI GOP leaders meeting with Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 20, 2020, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060 "2020-11-20T17:39:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/41 "2020-11-20T21:50:42Z")
If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy.” ― David Frum ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/42 "2020-11-20T21:55:46Z")
Oh come on! They’ve got a kind of old school _je ne sais quois_ to them. Plus they’d send a better message than most picket signs would. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/43 "2020-11-20T22:00:04Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > McEnBlarney said it’s a routine meeting. The main problem that I have with this whole thing is: > “Legally, they don’t think they have any actual legal options. It legally cannot happen in Michigan. That’s what they’re going to tell the president,” the leader said. Why the fuckety-fuck-fuck would you even consider whether there were legal ways to fucking subvert the mother-fucking democracy that you serve, you fucking fuckstain? Now, if I was saying it to their face, I would probably throw in a fuck or two. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/44 "2020-11-20T22:01:03Z")
Brother, I would never seek to deter you from expressing yourself how you see fit. 😃 Just pointing out that you’ll likely draw some _sui generis_ attention. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/45 "2020-11-20T22:26:24Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Unfortunately, we can’t necessarily control that. I’ll submit that not everyone who voted for Trump and the GOP necessarily advocated quite _this_ … All of the information they needed was in plain view all along. He has said again and again he would never accept any election which he didn’t win. He **promised** his supporters he would do exactly what he is now doing. No one who supported him can claim they did not advocate this. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/46 "2020-11-20T22:35:59Z")
Just to be clear, I’m not defending them - their naivete is borderline criminal and traitorous. Still, I think there are some people out there who didn’t vote with malice but wanted their tax cuts and wanted to think happy thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/47 "2020-11-20T22:40:41Z")
I agree, they did not all vote with malice. But they knew his character; it’s been on display. And they said “Yeah, I’m ok with that.” I’m not sure if that’s much better than malice in the end. btw – wanted to add to the chorus of posters pointing out you are completely nailing it lately. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/48 "2020-11-20T22:47:58Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Per NBC, Georgia has officially certified its votes in favor of Biden. They have not. The Secretary of State has. The governor has not, and Trump can still demand a recount. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/49 "2020-11-20T22:50:23Z")
Oh yes he has! > **[Georgia officials certify election results showing Biden win](https://apnews.com/article/georgia-certify-election-joe-biden-ea8f867d740f3d7d42d0a55c1aef9e69)** > > ATLANTA (AP) — Georgia's governor and top elections official on Friday certified results showing Joe Biden won the presidential race over Republican President Donald Trump, bringing the state one step closer to wrapping up an election fraught with... > [@](#): > > Georgia’s governor and top elections official on Friday certified results showing Joe Biden won the presidential race over Republican President Donald Trump. > > The certification brings the state one step closer to wrapping up an election that has been fraught with unfounded accusations of fraud by Trump and his supporters. > > Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger certified results reported by the state’s 159 counties following a meticulous hand count of the 5 million ballots cast in the race. The results show Biden with 2.47 million votes, President Donald Trump with 2.46 million votes and Libertarian Jo Jorgensen with 62,138. That leaves Biden leading by a margin of 12,670 votes or 0.25%. > > Later Friday, Republican Gov. Brian Kemp certified the state’s slate of 16 presidential electors, his spokesman Cody Hall said. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/50 "2020-11-20T22:58:37Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Later Friday, Republican Gov. Brian Kemp certified the state’s slate of 16 presidential electors, his spokesman Cody Hall said. No take backsies! ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/51 "2020-11-20T22:59:20Z")
In a way, Georgia might be the least likely battleground state to try Trump’s legislative coup. If they did try it would probably lead to a massive increase in Democratic turnout for the 1/5/21 senate runoffs and to Democratic control of the senate. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/52 "2020-11-20T23:04:27Z")
Great piece here: [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/20/opinion/trump-michigan-election.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/20/opinion/trump-michigan-election.html) Gist: if the state board refuses to certify, a court can compel them to, and if they still refuse (which means jail) the court can certify, itself. And the (Democratic) governor of Michigan has the power to remove board officials for malfeasance, which it surely would be. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/53 "2020-11-20T23:30:54Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > > > Per NBC, Georgia has officially certified its votes in favor of Biden. > > They have not. The Secretary of State has. The governor has not, and Trump can still demand a recount. I was wrong at the time due to a misleading headline. But I think I’m right now. I think Trump can still demand a second recount, but he would surely lose. And also I posted that in this thread by accident. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/54 "2020-11-20T23:34:45Z")
> [@Briny\_Deep](#): > > Gist: if the state board refuses to certify, a court can compel them to, and if they still refuse (which means jail) the court can certify, itself. The hole in this argument is that pesky little word “can”, because “can” isn’t a synonym for “will” or “must”… ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/55 "2020-11-20T23:35:23Z")
Quoting the Washington Post: > [@](#): > > Michigan’s top two Republican lawmakers said after meeting with Trump at the White House Friday that they have learned nothing new to change the outcome of the election in their state. > > “We will follow the law and follow the normal process regarding Michigan’s electors, just as we have said throughout this election,” Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey and Speaker of the House Lee Chatfield said in a joint statement issued late Friday. > > The lawmakers traveled to Washington to meet with the president a day after his legal team held a rambling news conference on Capitol Hill making clear that president still hoped to reverse the outcome of the election. The lawyers – Rudolph W. Giuliani, Jenna Ellis and Sydney Powell – said one strategy would be to urge state lawmakers to block certification of Biden’s win and appoint Electoral College electors themselves who support Trump. > > In their statement, the Michigan lawmakers also said that their state’s certification process should be “free from threats and intimidation.” > > “Allegations of fraudulent behavior should be taken seriously, thoroughly investigated, and if proven, prosecuted to the full extent of the law. And the candidates who win the most votes win elections and Michigan’s electoral votes. These are simple truths that should provide confidence in our elections.” > **[Donald Trump Jr., the president’s eldest son, has tested positive for the...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2020/11/20/joe-biden-trump-transition-live-updates/#link-DSSPUNZLIVDDPA3XESAGIXY7SE)** > > The president-elect plans to meet with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) in Wilmington, Del., as he continues his transition to the White House. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/56 "2020-11-20T23:38:23Z")
Good for them. I’m not really sure why they went to meet with Trump in the first place, but I’m glad they couldn’t be swayed. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/57 "2020-11-20T23:43:29Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I’m not really sure why they went to meet with Trump in the first place They said that they felt an obligation to do so, in part due to pressure from their party, as well as because it’s a request from the President for a meeting. Again, as per the Post: > [@](#): > > A political operative in Lansing who spoke on the condition anonymity to describe private discussions said he spoke to Chatfield this week and thinks both lawmakers feel an obligation to meet with Trump in part because he is the president and in part because Republicans in Michigan are pushing for them to intervene, despite the lack of evidence. > > “They are under immense pressure,” the person said. “They are the two highest-ranked Republicans left in Michigan. The Republican Party along with the grass roots are clamoring for them to just overturn the election. So, to say, ‘We’re not going to the White House’ is a slap in the face to their own party.” > > On Friday, Chatfield tweeted: “No matter the party, when you have an opportunity to meet with the President of the United States, of course you take it. I won’t apologize for that. In fact, I’m honored to speak with POTUS and proud to meet with him. And I look forward to our conversation.” > **[Trump suffers twin defeats in his effort to overturn Biden’s victory in key...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-michigan-lawmakers-meeting/2020/11/20/ef30e2ba-2b43-11eb-8fa2-06e7cbb145c0_story.html)** > > Georgia officials certified Biden’s roughly 12,000-vote win there, and Republican lawmakers from Michigan met with President Trump at the White House but said they learned nothing that would warrant overturning Biden’s victory. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/58 "2020-11-20T23:45:02Z")
Ok, so they’re still cowards. Just not cowardly enough to overturn an election. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/59 "2020-11-21T00:05:59Z")
Would you take “would likely”? Maybe the editorial is too sanguine on the point, I don’t know: > The Biden campaign and Michigan voters would likely first turn to the state or federal courts. A court would likely issue an order to the state board to certify the result — legally, this is known as issuing a writ of mandamus — because the board’s legal duty is clear and unequivocal once it has received the certified vote totals from the counties. If the resistant board members were still willing to defy the court and go to jail (presidential pardons do not apply to state crimes), a court could also issue the certification itself. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/60 "2020-11-21T00:12:41Z")
Hey hey: > President Trump on Friday suffered another blow to his unprecedented effort to undo the election results when a delegation of Michigan Republicans, after meeting with Mr. Trump at the White House, said that they would “follow the normal process” in certifying the vote results and honor the outcome. (But how pathetic is it that I feel relieved lawmakers say they intend to follow the law?) > **[Transition Highlights: After Trump Meeting, Michigan Lawmakers Maintain They...](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/20/us/joe-biden-trump#michigan-lawmakers-after-meeting-with-trump-reaffirm-that-they-will-honor-the-states-vote)** > > Two Republicans who attended the meeting vowed not to interfere with the certification process in their state. In Georgia, the state certified President-elect Joe Biden’s victory in the state. Mr. Biden met with Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senator Chuck... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060.md?page=4)