# MI GOP leaders meeting with Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 20, 2020, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060 "2020-11-20T17:39:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/101 "2020-11-21T21:41:47Z")
Right, and let’s not forget that Trump probably has _real_ lawyers and people familiar with political procedure at all points throughout the transition process at his disposal. Trump and Giuliani are clowns, but they are clowns who serve a purpose (their own anyway); there are people who can focus on the task at hand. They’ve been there all along. We’re fortunate that Trump is not good at coordinating teams, but they are relentless and whenever they fail to open one door, they’ll just keep trying to open others. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/102 "2020-11-21T23:09:29Z")
I withhold judgment until I see what happens. If I thought my family was about to get doxxed and threatened with execution, I’d damn well drink the Dom. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/103 "2020-11-21T23:42:49Z")
Then you would _deserve_ everything bad that happened to you as a result, which would not be the case if you did what was right. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/104 "2020-11-21T23:45:47Z")
Eh? Seems to me that if these Michigan officials do what’s right and don’t help Trump, the chances of being doxxed and threatened goes up. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/105 "2020-11-21T23:48:35Z")
People who do the right thing don’t deserve bad consequences for it, IMO, but people who do the wrong thing _earn_ bad consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/106 "2020-11-21T23:57:00Z")
Sure, but at some point vigilance becomes emotional distress and then paranoia. Maybe I’m reading too much into comments here but I am worried about the emotional state of Dopers, and I mean that in the most caring way. Trump is trying to steal the election but he has failed miserably, like everything else. He has lost every substantial court case, even those with conservative judges. Every single GOP state official in charge has shut down all talk about fraud or sending electors. Competent lawyers are ejecting themselves from the crazy train. Yes, a few Republicans like Graham are pushing a narrative for Trump but as far as I can tell it’s had no effect. I wish more Republicans would publicly criticize Trump. But that’s not the same as letting him pull off a coup. A lot of Dopers are creating paths for Trump to seize the House that aren’t backed up by what’s actually happening. Trump is not going to steal this election. I think those who believe it to be realistic should step back and take a deep breath. Maybe take a break from the news for a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/107 "2020-11-21T23:59:38Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > > [@asahi](#): > > > > Moreover, if you are perceived as accepting this kind of behavior, you can damn well bet they’ll try even harder to make sure they throw your vote out again in 2 or 4 years. > > This is a critical point. > > Trump and his minions are 100% trying to pull off a coup, and anyone who says it’s impossible just isn’t paying attention. It’s HARD, and they will probably fail, in part because Trump is stupid and didn’t start planning it a long time ago. But it’s absolutely possible, and all the “well, it’s illegal” talk is just dumb as hell. Of course it’s illegal; all coups are illegal by definition, and yet they happen anyway. There is absolutely a path to a coup, it’s perfectly plausible, and Trump could have had a better than even shot at pulling it off had he had smarter guys start planning it awhile ago. Once you have a significant plurality of the populace willing to abandon democracy, you can do it. Doesn’t matter what the law says. > > So now what you have is that last condition. Trumpists do not believe the election really went the way it did, and they don’t care about democracy, so they will support democracy being tossed aside, and that means it CAN be tossed aside. David Frum was right. > [@bobot](#): > > If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy.” > ― David Frum Yes, yes, yes, yes. Exactly ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/108 "2020-11-22T00:01:44Z")
Amash the lame duck from my district should be making some Fucking noise once and for all about his “colleagues in Congress”. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/109 "2020-11-22T02:11:17Z")
Your concern is noted. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/110 "2020-11-22T15:21:26Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Sure, but at some point vigilance becomes emotional distress and then paranoia. And at some point, ice cream becomes diabetes. > [@Deeg](#): > > Maybe I’m reading too much into comments here but I am worried about the emotional state of Dopers, I think you are. > [@Deeg](#): > > Trump is trying to steal the election but he has failed miserably, like everything else. Like everything else? Like the 2016 election that no one thought he would win? > [@Deeg](#): > > He has lost every substantial court case, even those with conservative judges. Every single GOP state official in charge has shut down all talk about fraud or sending electors. Competent lawyers are ejecting themselves from the crazy train. And a substantial part of that is public pressure and observation. If we were not paying attention, that may have turned out very differently. And I would not say that “every single” one has shut down. There are still enough in play to merit concern. > [@Deeg](#): > > Trump is not going to steal this election. I think you are right, I hope you are right, but there are no guarantees > [@Deeg](#): > > I think those who believe it to be realistic should step back and take a deep breath. Maybe take a break from the news for a bit. That’s the worst advice. For one, if it were to be followed, then they _could_ get away with pulling this off as everyone turns off the news. Furthermore, telling someone to calm down is almost always the worst way to actually get them to calm down. People are calm, they are just keeping an eye on things. Sometimes we game out scenarios to see where they will take things. We look for loose ends that may be exploited. We remain calm by inspecting the cracks and making sure that they are not being widened, not by ignoring the problem and hoping that it goes away. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/111 "2020-11-22T15:26:45Z")
I mean, I’m not calm. But it’s not like looking away from this trainwreck will make me any calmer. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/112 "2020-11-22T15:52:02Z")
You need to read up on the history of places where democracies have given way to illiberal democracy (and eventually authoritarianism). It doesn’t happen all at once - they are eventually undermined and weakened to the point where they eventually fail. In many cases - most, actually - authoritarians use democracy to destroy it. All places where democracy fails have one thing in common: they disenfranchise a substantial portion of the population. There are large numbers of people who effectively have no representation in their government. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/113 "2020-11-22T16:11:08Z")
I check myself daily – is this just studied interest, morbid fascination, a truly ‘patriotic’ stance (trying to understand if the Constitution is slowly being immolated before our eyes) … or is it a destructive fixation that’s more reflective of whatever’s occupying _my_ mind than of reality ? I think it’s a worthwhile question for some/each of us to ask ourselves during this melodrama, but I’ll basically exhale and stay tuned in. I’m not sure the answer will/should be the same for everybody – Dopers or otherwise. In 2016, I told friends and family that the potential for destruction was at least as great _in individuals_ (based on their responses and reactions to DJT’s election and **p** residency) than the likely collective, national or global destruction that CFSG could, himself, wreak. The thing that keeps coming into my mind – and those who know the movie will get its context unhesitatingly – is: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/-kbTbg00AJU/maxresdefault.jpg ""Who Are Those Guys?" - Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kbTbg00AJU) DJT’s army is **virtually** bound to fail at this gambit. But they haven’t yet. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/114 "2020-11-22T17:04:40Z")
Sorry to bother, but what is CFSG? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/115 "2020-11-22T17:06:29Z")
People are not calm. They’re freaking out and positing ideas that have little basis in fact. Trump loses a case and a few Dopers react like this is good for Trump. This path leads to pizzagate and is unhealthy. When Trump starts to win some of these appeals we can start to panic. Until then it’s rumor mongering. Trump is not stealing this election. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/116 "2020-11-22T17:08:51Z")
Yeah, I head crap like this when Trump first started his bizarre campaign. We know better now, but nice try. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/117 "2020-11-22T17:09:45Z")
Deeg, I think you need to re-read this quote from above. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Sometimes we game out scenarios to see where they will take things. We look for loose ends that may be exploited. We remain calm by inspecting the cracks and making sure that they are not being widened, not by ignoring the problem and hoping that it goes away. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/118 "2020-11-22T17:11:21Z")
Let me reiterate: if Trump starts to win his cases we can panic. If a GOP official in charge of certifying the vote starts the process of overturning the results we can panic. What’s happened instead is that all these attempts are unequivocally shot down. Trump is testing our democracy and democracy is winning. Handily. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/119 "2020-11-22T17:12:01Z")
I learned it here: Cheeto-faced shit-gibbon. A bit more color commentary: > **[A Hero for Our Time: We Found the Man Behind the Priceless Trump Insult...](https://slate.com/culture/2017/02/the-origin-of-the-trump-insult-shitgibbon-revealed.html)** > > In an article last Thursday, I looked at the rise of the colorful Trumpian epithet shitgibbon. The word first hit it big last June when Donald Trump... ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060/120 "2020-11-22T17:15:11Z")
Sure, but let’s be realistic when we play out scenarios. The michigan pols publicly resisted Trump’s attempts to change the vote; let’s not assume it’s all part of an insidious plan to cheat the electoral process. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mi-gop-leaders-meeting-with-trump/926060.md?page=7)