# Micahel Jackson and roman Polanski: double standard? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 22, 2003, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633 "2003-11-22T06:02:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633/21 "2003-11-22T14:21:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KidCharlemagne \* > **Diogenes it sounds like the crux of your question, regardless of the individual circumstances in each of these cases, is whether or not their is a bias against homosexual vs. heterosexual pedophilia. I believe the answer to that is "yes"** I agree, but I would add that both types of misconduct are so hated and reviled, particularly where the victim is pre-pubescent, that the difference is not all that significant. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633/22 "2003-11-22T14:25:42Z")
I believe there is a double standard, but it does not relate to sexual orientation. The arguments of Roman Polanski’s defenders always ring hollow, because in the end they boil down to “someone who makes such great films can’t be all bad”. These are the same arguments made for Woody Allen’s actions with his unofficially adopted children. Jackson, on the other hand, has squandered his considerable talent, becoming a shadow of his former self artistically, and a frightening caricature of a human being to boot. The jester no longer amuses us, so we are willing to throw him out of the royal court. Which leads me to question: Would the DC sniper have gotten off had he simply been able to play an instrument? ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633/23 "2003-11-22T14:45:54Z")
silly me, posting to GD sans cites. [The Age (Australia)](http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/03/02/1046540066443.html) > [@](#): > > The woman who, as a schoolgirl, was the victim of a statutory rape by film director Roman Polanski has told Academy members in Hollywood that they should feel free to give him an Oscar for The Pianist. > > Polanski fled the United States in 1977 and is still on the FBI’s wanted list. He has been nominated for the best director award at this month’s Oscars. > > Samantha Geimer, now 38 and living in Hawaii with her husband and three sons, made her plea in an article in the Los Angeles Times, in which she urged Academy voters to choose Polanski and his film, The Pianist, as Oscar winners despite his crimes. She said that what the Polish director did to her 25 years ago should not affect their judgement. > > Geimer was 13 when Polanski, then 44, told her mother he wanted to take pictures of her for a French magazine at a photo session in Los Angeles. He gave her champagne and a drug that causes drowsiness, then had sex with her at a house owned by Jack Nicholson on Mulholland Drive. > > “It was not consensual sex by any means,” wrote Geimer in her article. “I said no repeatedly but he wouldn’t take no for an answer. I was alone and I didn’t know what to do. It was very scary and, looking back, very creepy.” > > Polanski was arrested and charged with several sex offences. He was detained in a secure unit for psychiatric evaluation. Eventually, the district attorney, his lawyers and Geimer’s lawyers reached an agreement whereby he would enter a guilty plea and be sentenced to time he had already served. > > However, just before sentencing, the trial judge indicated he had changed his mind and hinted that he might jail Polanski for up to 50 years. The director fled and has never returned to the US. He now lives in France. Polanski was not treated fairly. There was scant evidence of a rape - certainly criminal evidence gathering was primitive back then. Yet he was ready to plea to some lesser charge that was rescinded by the judge. That was wrong. The DA of Santa Barbara started with the same case - a victim giving a statement as to what happened. The DA had also been castigated (word of the day) in a MJ song from like ten years ago. Anyways, he came off as an arse in his press conference. I doubt they have anything that amounts to incriminating evidence in any videos/DVDs they found. Of course, one underage boy or girl in a video is a felony. Let that be a lesson to any of you who have early Traci Lords videos - or even the Penthouse with Vanessa Williams (16 y/o Traci Lords is in that issue) ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633/24 "2003-11-23T17:40:17Z")
An excerpt from The Smoking Gun, where you can read the victim’s testimony. > [@](#): > > The girl then told prosecutors how Polanski directed her to, “Take off your underwear” and enter the Jacuzzi, where he photographed her naked. Soon, the director, who was then 43, joined her in the hot tub. He also wasn’t wearing any clothes and, according to Gailey’s testimony, wrapped his hands around the child’s waist. > > The girl testified that she left the Jacuzzi and entered a bedroom in Nicholson’s home, where Polanski sat down beside her and kissed the teen, despite her demands that he “keep away.” According to Gailey, Polanski then performed a sex act on her and later “started to have intercourse with me.” At one point, according to Gailey’s testimony, Polanski asked the 13-year-old if she was “on the pill,” and “When did you last have your period?” Polanski then asked her, Gailey recalled, “Would you want me to go in through your back?” before he “put his penis in my butt.” Asked why she did not more forcefully resist Polanski, the teenager told Deputy D.A. Roger Gunson, “Because I was afraid of him.” While I definitely think the gender of a rape/molestation victim plays a part, unfairly, in how the case is treated, I don’t think it really plays a significant role in these two cases. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633/25 "2003-11-23T18:28:13Z")
Sorry, I just had to add that at one point, while on the stand, the victim explains how Polanski orally raped her by saying he “started performing cuddliness.” Oh yeah, she’s a regular 13-going-on-30 vixen (unless, of course, there was some sort of error made while recording her testimony) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633/26 "2003-11-23T19:48:16Z")
Both of them are scum, if you ask me. Talented, but scum. ---
**Author:** ![eli\_the\_fanatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@eli\_the\_fanatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eli_the_fanatic)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633/27 "2003-11-23T19:50:47Z")
I didn’t mean to suggest the girl was “13 going on 30,” but hazarding a guess as to why Hollywood has forgiven Polanski. Personally, I think he’s a pig. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633/28 "2003-11-23T20:18:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cat Fight \* > \*\*Sorry, I just had to add that at one point, while on the stand, the victim explains how Polanski orally raped her by saying he “started performing cuddliness.” Oh yeah, she’s a regular 13-going-on-30 vixen (unless, of course, there was some sort of error made while recording her testimony) \*\* Well, she did say that she had had sexual intercourse with another male before that incident. She may not have been a vixen, but she wasn’t completely pure either. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633/29 "2003-11-23T20:23:20Z")
So WHAT? I don’t care if she was the Whore of Babylon-NO MEANS NO!!! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633/30 "2003-11-24T01:25:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blalron \* > \*\*Well, she did say that she had had sexual intercourse with another male before that incident. She may not have been a vixen, but she wasn’t completely pure either. \*\* Any prior intercourse was also legally rape since she could not have consented by law. That fact that she had been raped before did not render her “impure.” BTW, this argument would seem completely ridiculous if Michael Jackson tried it (the boy’s been molested before so he’s not “pure”) which (IMO) lends credence to my case about a double standard with regards to the sex of the victim. ---
**Author:** ![laigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633/31 "2003-11-24T01:39:30Z")
What we need are special prisons for artists where they make movies instead of license plates. Maybe an in-prison major sparts franchise or two. That way we wouldn’t feel so bad about locking them up and losing the entertainment value. For lesser offenses, you could even sentence them by films/seasons. ---
**Author:** ![doctordoowop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecc23a/32.png) [@doctordoowop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doctordoowop)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633/32 "2003-11-24T02:09:56Z")
Polanski was never tried in absentia or in person. Above it says he was in a secure psych unit-he was? I don’t think so- AFAIK, he was never seen by a court psych, which he would have had to for sex crimes per the MDSO law (mentally disordered sex offender ),6300 WIC, since repealed. MY memory is that the late Santa Monica judge Lawrence Rittenband was thinking of sending Roman for a 90 day "diagnostic study’ at Chino St prison- nobody was talking about 50 + years then. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633/33 "2003-11-24T14:33:46Z")
The “in absentia” confusion is likely a conflation of Polanski’s case with that of Ira Einhorn, who was convicted of murder in absentia by an American court and who also spent decades hiding out in France, only to be extradited in 2001. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633/34 "2003-11-24T15:09:02Z")
> [@](#): > > However, just before sentencing, the trial judge indicated he had changed his mind and hinted that he might jail Polanski for up to 50 years. The director fled and has never returned to the US. He now lives in France. How is this unfair? In all cases, the trial judge has the authority to reject plea bargains. Cite:[http://dictionary.law.com/definition2.asp?selected=1541&bold=||||](http://dictionary.law.com/definition2.asp?selected=1541&bold=%7C%7C%7C%7C) ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633/35 "2003-11-25T08:23:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Who\_me? \* > \*\*How is this unfair? In all cases, the trial judge has the authority to reject plea bargains. > \*\* That may be true, but it doesn’t make it right if all the other parties, especially the victim, have agreed to the plea bargain. I think this was a case where Polanski was treated more harshly _because_ he was a celebrity. This is an exchange between Lawrence Silver, Samantha Geimer’s lawyer (at the time of the rape), and Larry King, when Silver and Geimer appeared on King’s CNN show prior to the Oscars (it aired February 24, 2003): > [@](#): > > \*\* > KING: Were you shocked what the judge did? What did the judge do, tell us? > SILVER: Well, what the judge did was frankly outrageous. We had agreed to a plea bargain. It wasn’t what the prosecution wanted, it certainly wasn’t what Polanski wanted, but it was what we wanted. We were the victim and this is the way in which Samantha would not be in trial. Samantha would be – her name would not be exposed at the time. And she would be allowed to recover. > > And the plea was proposed to the judge, the judge approved it. And then frankly the day before he called us in the chambers and said he was getting a great deal of pressure and a great deal – he was concerned about criticism of him in the press. And he was going to sentence Polanski rather than to time served, which is what we agreed to, to 50 years. That’s a long – big difference. And… > KING: Told you that. > SILVER: Yes, told us that. And he Told us other things. He directed Mr. Dalton, Polanski’s lawyer, to say certain things during court. He directed the prosecutor, Mr. Guncin (ph), to say certain things the next day. Directed me to do things. This is unheard of. > KING: Inviting him to flee? > SILVER: I don’t know about that. > KING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) 50 years. > SILVER: Well, I don’t know about inviting him to flee. But he also said that he might consider reducing it if Polanski would self- deport himself. This a state court judge, he has no jurisdiction over immigration, naturalization matters. So this change of position by the judge excused Polanski. And there was an agreement. An agreement that was a good agreement. It addressed all of the interests of the parties and frankly I still think it ought to be enforced. > KING: What happens if he comes back now? > SILVER: Well, my view is that the district attorney ought to honor the agreements. Sure Samantha is different today, but there was a public interest at time in protecting her. I think the – I think that the agreement ought to be enforced. I think that in terms of fleeing, I think frankly, we all understand why that happened. \*\* The entire interview is [here.](http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0302/24/lkl.00.html) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633/36 "2003-11-25T09:04:19Z")
In that case, I wonder if the perception Polanski was treated unfairly by the court might have to do with the way people perceive this. Polanski did something terrible and was willing to pay for it (plead guilty, do some time) and then the judge seems to have gone rogue. Michael Jackson was charged with a crime and _bought his way out_ when he appeared to be guilty. Now he’s accused of the same crime again. I can’t find it online right now, but today or yesterday Liz Taylor issued a statement saying she supported Michael. So I guess she hasn’t abandoned him totally. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633/37 "2003-11-25T09:05:51Z")
[Ah, here it is.](http://metromix.chicagotribune.com/news/celebrity/mmx-0311240213nov24,0,6117685.story?coll=mmx-celebrity_heds) ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633/38 "2003-11-25T13:23:32Z")
I worked with molesters at a residential treatment center for the christless monsters. Jackson and Polanski both remind me of the pus-bags I used to supervise. One thing that I’ve never seen from a pedophile is genuine contrition. The only thing they’re ever sorry about is getting caught. If they’re guilty, Jackson and Polanski (and every other pedophile) should be put away forever. No double standards. ---
**Author:** ![Scarf-Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Scarf-Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarf-Ace)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633/39 "2003-11-25T13:37:35Z")
Maybe because MJ is more popular there is more bad feeling toward him. I think even Uri Geller’s support has been stretched to the limit. I read an article recently where he repeatedly said that “Michael has crossed the line” by saying that he enjoyed sleeping with kids. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633/40 "2003-11-25T15:10:10Z")
RP is vermin. He never did his time. I couldn’t care less if he’s been apologetic, apologies don’t cost a thing. The government should put a cash bounty on his head, so a bounty hunter will grab him and drag him out of France (where all is forgiven apparently) and bring him back to justice. Remember someone tried to grab Ron Biggs (Great Train Robber) out of Brazil for the money. Though that attempt failed, he ultimately returned to the UK to serve his sentence. Show MJ no leniency either; as a parent, I feel the actions of these two creeps deserves none. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/micahel-jackson-and-roman-polanski-double-standard/214633.md?page=3)