# Michael Bay's Pearl Harbor teaches 5th graders about WWII... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 27, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540 "2010-04-27T17:33:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/1 "2010-04-27T17:33:23Z")
…according to my daughter’s teacher. Yes. This is the same teacher that has a poster in her room depicting political philosophy through cows. ☹ The follow-up on that was that I tried unsuccessfully to explain to the teacher that my daughter had apparently missed the joke and obtained some pretty ridiculous assumptions based on the poster. It was defended as something the school district provides to classrooms and that it’s only meant to be analogous. Well, at least the school year’s almost over and we can hope for better next year. _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/2 "2010-04-27T17:48:53Z")
What was the cow thing again? I remember reading it but I forgot the details. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/3 "2010-04-27T18:00:51Z")
I dunno, if you’re in fifth grade, you probably don’t know much about Pearl Harbor, and could probably learn a decent amount about it from the Michael Bay movie. Glancing at the list of historical inaccuracies for the film in wikipedia, most of it is stuff like: > [@](#): > > In the film, the P-40N model of the Curtiss P-40 Warhawk U.S. fighter aircraft is shown. Nevertheless, the “N” model of the P-40 was not available to the United States until 1943. Not exactly something thats really devastating to a fifth grade level understanding of WWII. I wouldn’t recommend watching Pearl Harbor to learn anything about making a decent movie, but the history stuff seems OK. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/4 "2010-04-27T18:03:03Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > What was the cow thing again? I remember reading it but I forgot the details. [Bovine Political Science](http://hypocrisytoday.com/polit-2.htm) > [@Simplicio](#): > > I wouldn’t recommend watching Pearl Harbor to learn anything about making a decent movie, but the history stuff seems OK. Ah, no. They would be much better served by watching _Tora, Tora, Tora_ or actually, oh, I don’t know, being taught by a teacher who knows what they’re doing. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/5 "2010-04-27T18:16:54Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > [Bovine Political Science](http://hypocrisytoday.com/polit-2.htm) > > Ah, no. They would be much better served by watching _Tora, Tora, Tora_ or actually, oh, I don’t know, being taught by a teacher who knows what they’re doing. So what, specifically, would the movie teach that would be so jarringly false to a fifth-grade understanding of the event? (And this is not a rhetorical question; I’ve never seen the movie and have no idea). ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/6 "2010-04-27T18:17:06Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > [Bovine Political Science](http://hypocrisytoday.com/polit-2.htm) That’s it. Here’s the [original thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=540573). > [@](#): > > Ah, no. They would be much better served by watching _Tora, Tora, Tora_ … That’s exactly what my husband said. Although, I’m not sure my 11 year old could sit through that. This teacher likes to teach using stories, which is why I think she decided this movie would be appropriate. I’m all for the value of storytelling as well, but I think the romantic story and all the ridiculous dramatization overshadows the real story. I would much rather my daughter watch Ken Burns’ _The War_\* as an example of storytelling as a means to better understand the war. There is so much more value in listening to real people talk about real events than watching a dramatization that exists solely to entertain. - In any event, two of our relatives are interviewed in that documentary. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/7 "2010-04-27T18:17:46Z")
Ok, so maybe Bay’s Pearl Harbor isn’t as historically accurate as his treatment of the Cybertronian Civil War. But it is a great film for teaching fifth graders. It’s a great film for the fifth grader in all of us! ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/8 "2010-04-27T18:18:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So what, specifically, would the movie teach that would be so jarringly false to a fifth-grade understanding of the event? (And this is not a rhetorical question; I’ve never seen the movie and have no idea). That it was romantic to be involved in a war, for one. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/9 "2010-04-27T18:23:15Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > That it was romantic to be involved in a war, for one. Seriously? This was a message that you object to? My understanding was that you objected to the historical accuracy. While I’m sure the actual characters in the film were fictional, I’m equally sure that the event, and the war, involved many romances. So you can hardly criticize it for being blatantly false. You may personally wish to portray war as universally despised, but in point of fact during World War II many people met who would not have otherwise met, fell in love, and otherwise experienced great romance. That is neither wrong nor an objectionable message for the fifth grade. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/10 "2010-04-27T18:34:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Seriously? > > This was a message that you object to? Well, that wasn’t what you asked. But yeah, that’s a valid reason why I object to that particular choice. We’re talking about 11 year olds here. It’s an unnecessary distraction. If you want to teach about the war, why choose a movie with that kind of distraction when there are so many other far better, far more accurate, far more topical movies, not to mention documentaries, available? It’s just dumb. > [@](#): > > My understanding was that you objected to the historical accuracy. Yes, I do. > [@](#): > > While I’m sure the actual characters in the film were fictional, I’m equally sure that the event, and the war, involved many romances. So you can hardly criticize it for being blatantly false. You may personally wish to portray war as universally despised, but in point of fact during World War II many people met who would not have otherwise met, fell in love, and otherwise experienced great romance. That is neither wrong nor an objectionable message for the fifth grade. As a matter of fact, I’m certain that you are correct in that romance was very much a side effect of the war as I am a product of it (my grandparents met as a result of the war). One of the relatives I spoke of also earlier also experienced that. However, I’m quite certain that’s not the point of this exercise. As such it is a silly distraction that serves no purpose. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/11 "2010-04-27T18:35:17Z")
The history teacher in me objects to Bay being involved in _anything_. The love story didn’t bother me. The idea that a pilot could fly for the RAF, be at Pearl Harbor during the attack, and then suddenly transition to a multi-engine ticket so he could take part in the Dolittle raid indicates that the film-maker has made a deliberate decision to throw historical versimilitude out the window. December 7, 1941 has enough drama and human interest to tell straight. There is zero need for any revisionism. Yes, _Pearl Harbor_ will appeal to 5th graders. But they aren’t educated enough or mature enough to be able to discern where the film-maker changed reality. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/12 "2010-04-27T18:37:37Z")
As to the historical inaccuracies, my daughter was most impressed that a guy who had peeling potatoes could then shoot down Japs and help the Captain. I find it sad, though, she didn’t even know the name of the real man whose experienced was \*\*dramatized \*\*in that movie. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/13 "2010-04-27T18:49:59Z")
They showed our seventh graders **Troy** to teach them about the Trojan War. To my delight, MilliCal came home upset about it and started listing the errors. We brung her up right. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/14 "2010-04-27T19:01:10Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > They showed our seventh graders **Troy** to teach them about the Trojan War. > To my delight, MilliCal came home upset about it and started listing the errors. We brung her up right. You mean that she thought the newer Brad Pitt fictionalization where everyone is more or less human was less accurate then the slightly older fictionalization by Homer where Gods are running around stabbing people and making prophecies? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/15 "2010-04-27T19:10:43Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The history teacher in me objects to Bay being involved in _anything_. The love story didn’t bother me. The idea that a pilot could fly for the RAF, be at Pearl Harbor during the attack, and then suddenly transition to a multi-engine ticket so he could take part in the Dolittle raid indicates that the film-maker has made a deliberate decision to throw historical versimilitude out the window. Well considering my brief snippet of viewing the movie consists of a dogfight taking place a hundred feet at most from the ground, I’d actually consider him prime material for the Doolittle Raid 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/16 "2010-04-27T19:15:15Z")
I suppose the teacher could use it as a negative teaching tool, the way my high school biology teacher used _V_ and _MacGyver_. She would give extra credit points for watching the episodes and bringing in a list of scientific inaccuracies. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/17 "2010-04-27T19:18:45Z")
> [@](#): > > You mean that she thought the newer Brad Pitt fictionalization where everyone is more or less human was less accurate then the slightly older fictionalization by Homer where Gods are running around stabbing people and making prophecies? Ah, yes, the Brad Pitt film that got its information about the event from … _where_ was it, again? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/18 "2010-04-27T19:22:03Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Ah, yes, the Brad Pitt film that got its information about the event from … _where_ was it, again? Schliemann? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/19 "2010-04-27T19:27:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Schliemann? Yeah, right. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/20 "2010-04-27T19:41:15Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > There is zero need for any revisionism [in _Pearl Harbor_]. But they had to revise the ‘Zeros’ in _Tora! Tora! Tora!_. Well, modify T-6s into Zeros. But that’s not amusing. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540.md?page=2)