# Michael Bay's Pearl Harbor teaches 5th graders about WWII... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 27, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540 "2010-04-27T17:33:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/21 "2010-04-27T19:43:16Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > As to the historical inaccuracies, my daughter was most impressed that a guy who had peeling potatoes could then shoot down Japs and help the Captain. I find it sad, though, she didn’t even know the name of the real man whose experienced was \*\*dramatized \*\*in that movie. Did you tell her it was Doris Miller, and that he got the Navy Cross for it? ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/22 "2010-04-27T19:50:07Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Did you tell her it was Doris Miller, and that he got the Navy Cross for it? My husband told her. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/23 "2010-04-27T21:42:02Z")
All I’m trying to say is that Pearl Harbor sucks, and I miss you. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/24 "2010-04-27T21:50:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So what, specifically, would the movie teach that would be so jarringly false to a fifth-grade understanding of the event? (And this is not a rhetorical question; I’ve never seen the movie and have no idea). Well, there’s the scene where Ben Affleck, on his way to England, boards a _train_. But that isn’t really historical, it it? Probably more of a geographical failure… ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/25 "2010-04-27T22:01:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My understanding was that you objected to the historical accuracy. > [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Yes, I do. And do you care to elaborate on precisely what your objection is to the historical accuracy? (aside from there being a Hollywood romance in the film) I haven’t seen the film either, but there are people in the thread saying it’s more or less historically accurate, at least to anything you’d be learning on a 5th grade level. So now I’m really curious as to what your objections actually are since you’re being so coy about it. Edit: just saw your later post about the potato peeler but still, seems like you’re just objecting on the principle that it’s a Hollywood movie more than the fact that there are any gross historical misrepresentations in it. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/26 "2010-04-27T22:05:59Z")
I would be upset about my kid watching _any_ movie in school (unless it’s the day before any of the breaks when the kids are bouncing off the wall with excitement), much less having it as a teaching tool. However, at least the teacher didn’t show _Inglorious Basterds_. The history in that one was just so wrong… and right. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/27 "2010-04-27T22:25:09Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Well, there’s the scene where Ben Affleck, on his way to England, boards a _train_. Wouldn’t most soldiers who shipped to Europe have taken a train to whatever their port of departure was? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/28 "2010-04-27T22:36:59Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Edit: just saw your later post about the potato peeler but still, seems like you’re just objecting on the principle that it’s a Hollywood movie more than the fact that there are any gross historical misrepresentations in it. That’s what I get out of it, too. It bothers her that her daughter is not being taught that Hollywood movies are bad. It bothers her that the teacher would actually use attention grabbing, interesting stuff to teach, rather than teach in a dry manner with stuff that would mostly go over her students heads. If you can’t stand a teacher having a joke poster in the room, then I’d say your standards are too high. You want to teach your child to be an elitist, humor-impaired snob, you have the option to home school. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/29 "2010-04-28T01:30:33Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Wouldn’t most soldiers who shipped to Europe have taken a train to whatever their port of departure was? Yeah, but I seem to recall something about how New York City was a port city back in the day. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/30 "2010-04-28T01:46:21Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Yeah, but I seem to recall something about how New York City was a port city back in the day. 😉 Actually, during WWII about three million soldiers left for Europe through the Hoboken, NJ terminal just over the river. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/31 "2010-04-28T02:10:12Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > And do you care to elaborate on precisely what your objection is to the historical accuracy? (aside from there being a Hollywood romance in the film) I haven’t seen the film either, but there are people in the thread saying it’s more or less historically accurate, at least to anything you’d be learning on a 5th grade level. So now I’m really curious as to what your objections actually are since you’re being so coy about it. > > Edit: just saw your later post about the potato peeler but still, seems like you’re just objecting on the principle that it’s a Hollywood movie more than the fact that there are any gross historical misrepresentations in it. There’s a whole list of inaccuracies (many of which, admittedly) are going to be meaningless to the average fifth grader) and the movie is widely regarded as lacking historical context and taking wide latitude with significant WWII events. It was a dramatic, entertaining (I won’t begrudge the entertainment quality due to its popularity) movie and should be regarded as such, no more. As a historical look into tumultuous human event, it’s a cake wreck in a world of serious baked goods. Truly, there is a wealth of media done on WWII, fictionalized and factual. Much of it has merit as a teaching aid; some of it does not. Given that, I just happen to think this choice is lame and sadly indicative of the lack of quality in education people seem too eager to accept. I’m not so eager. I am, however, at a loss. Other than sharing with her some WWII documentaries and movies I enjoy and continuing the discussions on what she learns, I guess I take away from this. She’s going to be fed some garbage in school and it’s up to us to help her determine what to keep and what to throw out. Hopefully, we can teach her to be more like **CalMeacham** ’s kid. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/32 "2010-04-28T03:08:40Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > There’s a whole list of inaccuracies > > … > > and the movie is widely regarded as lacking historical context > > … > > As a historical look into tumultuous human event, it’s a cake wreck in a world of serious baked goods. And your specific examples are… ? Sounds like an appeal to authority to me. Have you taught your daughter what that is yet? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/33 "2010-04-28T03:28:39Z")
The specific examples are all things a 5th grader wouldn’t even notice. That’s the point. Why should a kid be exposed to garbage such as _Pearl Harbor_ just because it’s “entertaining”? It’s still teaching them lies. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/34 "2010-04-28T03:39:30Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > And your specific examples are… ? Sounds like an appeal to authority to me. Have you taught your daughter what that is yet? I take it you liked the movie? Sorry I’m dissing your movie. I thought it was pretty good (although I enjoyed Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers much more\*) in the theatre, not so great in a fifth grade classroom. For whatever reason, you apparently disagree. Sheesh. Neither of those, I’d be thrilled about showing to fifth grade students either, nor does either depict the Pearl Harbor event (but I’m not sure if that was specifically the goal). But yeah, _Tora! Tora! Tora!_ would be the obvious choice if it were. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/35 "2010-04-28T04:47:20Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > I take it you liked the movie? Sorry I’m dissing your movie. > [@Rigamarole](#): > > I haven’t seen the film either It’s a 5th grade class. Unless that was \*all \*that they were taught about WWII, I don’t see what the big deal is. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/36 "2010-04-28T06:58:29Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > I take it you liked the movie? Sorry I’m dissing your movie. I thought it was pretty good (although I enjoyed Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers much more\*) in the theatre, not so great in a fifth grade classroom. For whatever reason, you apparently disagree. Sheesh. As I said upthread I haven’t even seen it. It’s your attitude that rubbed me the wrong way but since this isn’t the Pit and I don’t care enough to take it there, I’ll leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/37 "2010-04-28T08:30:32Z")
I have no interest in seeing _Pearl Harbor_. It seemed like a cash-in on the _Titanic_ love at the time, and its cinematic value is probably marginal at best. But if it’s more-or-less historically accurate, it could serve as a very effective means of allowing younger students to engage with the material, which can only be a positive. Obviously it should be supplemented with a more sober look at the historical record, but ultimately, shouldn’t history as a subject be vital and engaging? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/38 "2010-04-28T09:05:29Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Ok, so maybe Bay’s Pearl Harbor isn’t as historically accurate as his treatment of the Cybertronian Civil War. Are you kidding? He portrayed the Autobot leader, Optimus Prime, as the sort of entity that would execute a wounded enemy soldier that hadn’t done anything to deserve such a treatment. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/39 "2010-04-28T09:21:27Z")
I would totally use that movie to teach my kids about WWII. Of course, it wouldn’t be the only medium I’d be using to teach it. On the other hand, if the teacher IS using only this move, or at least, doesn’t have a “what this movie got factually incorrect” and a “kids, what do you think about how this movie portrays wartime in general?” sort of discussion afterwards, she or he is a crap teacher. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540/40 "2010-04-28T11:33:24Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > I would totally use that movie to teach my kids about WWII. Of course, it wouldn’t be the only medium I’d be using to teach it. > > On the other hand, if the teacher IS using only this move, or at least, doesn’t have a “what this movie got factually incorrect” and a “kids, what do you think about how this movie portrays wartime in general?” sort of discussion afterwards, she or he is a crap teacher. She opted to show only bits and pieces of it: scenes of FDR (the situation room scene, but not the speech to Congress) and the attack itself. It was muted for obscene language. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-bays-pearl-harbor-teaches-5th-graders-about-wwii/537540.md?page=3)