# Michael Brown evidence slowly being released. Case is falling apart. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 22, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167 "2014-10-22T18:08:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/1 "2014-10-22T18:08:12Z")
A couple days ago they released evidence from inside the patrol car that proves the confrontation started there. The guys skin and blood were found on the car. Today the autopsy results came out. Indicating a closeup gunshot wound to the hand. So, yes there was a struggle when he tried to grab the cops gun. > **[Michael Brown's Autopsy Analysis Shows Struggle with Darren Wilson, THC in...](https://www.newsweek.com/michael-browns-autopsy-analysis-shows-struggle-darren-wilson-thc-his-blood-and-279155)** > > The St. Louis Post-Dispatch has obtained a copy of what it says is the official autopsy report for Michael Brown. > **[Michael Brown autopsy, officer’s account indicate teen went for Ferguson...](https://www.nydailynews.com/2014/10/23/michael-brown-autopsy-officers-account-indicate-teen-went-for-ferguson-cops-gun-had-marijuana-in-his-system-report/)** > > Ferguson Police Officer Darren WIlson’s account of the confrontation in which Michael Brown was fatally shot has reportedly been leaked, with an independent medical examiner’s report ba… I hope this ends the rioting. A tragic overreaction to a cop that is doing his job and trying to keep the community safe. There are bad cops, but officer Darren Wilson was put into a very dangerous situation. He was attacked through his car window and there was a struggle for control of the gun. Plus there’s a second suspect that was with Brown and might of been armed. Thankfully that guy didn’t jump officer Darren Wilson too. Or we probably would have a dead cop. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/10/22/report-autopsy-analysis-shows-michael-brown-may-have-gone-for-darren-wilsons-gun/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/10/22/report-autopsy-analysis-shows-michael-brown-may-have-gone-for-darren-wilsons-gun/) > [@](#): > > The official county autopsy, which was performed by Dr. Gershom Norfleet, showed Brown was shot in the hand at close range based on the finding of “foreign matter ‘consistent with products that are discharged from the barrel of a firearm,’” in a wound on Brown’s hand, the Post-Dispatch reports. [This] guy is reaching for the gun, if he has gunpowder particulate material in the wound,” Dr. Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist in San Francisco, told the Post-Dispatch. > > The official autopsy also “did not support witnesses who have claimed Brown was shot while running away from Wilson, or with his hands up,” the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports. > [@](#): > > Sources told the newspaper that Brown’s blood was found on Wilson’s gun. The autopsy confirmed Brown’s blood was on Wilson’s car. > > “Someone got an injury that tore off skin and left it on the car,” Graham said. “That fits with everything else that came out. There’s blood in the car, now skin on the car, that shows something happened right there.” ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/2 "2014-10-22T18:15:51Z")
> [@](#): > > The autopsy found material “consistent with products that are discharged from the barrel of a firearm” in a wound on Brown’s thumb. Melinek said this “supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun, if he has gunpowder particulate material in the wound.” This will \*\*exonerate \*\*officer Darren Wilson. Clear proof he was fighting for control of his gun. The officer was being attacked and he had reason to be in fear for his life. > [@](#): > > Melinek said the autopsy did not support those who claim Brown was attempting to flee or surrender. > > Quoting the paper: > > ``` > She said Brown was facing Wilson when Brown took a shot to the forehead, two shots to the chest and a shot to the upper right arm. The wound to the top of Brown’s head would indicate he was falling forward or in a lunging position toward the shooter; the shot was instantly fatal. A sixth shot that hit the forearm traveled from the back of the arm to the inner arm, which means Brown’s palms could not have been facing Wilson, as some witnesses have said, Melinek said. That trajectory shows Brown probably was not taking a standard surrender position with arms above the shoulders and palms out when he was hit, she said.” > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/3 "2014-10-22T19:27:23Z")
The St Louis Dispatch has the most comprehensive coverage. > **[Source: Darren Wilson says Michael Brown kept charging at him](https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/source-darren-wilson-says-michael-brown-kept-charging-at-him/article_d2cf8b20-c517-592b-96ba-77d8a5f46fef.html)** > > Ferguson police officer told investigators that he struggled to keep his gun. The description of the struggle in that car is chilling. That cop was in real trouble. He couldn’t use pepper spray in a confined space. His baton was on the back of his belt and inaccessible. He’s got a big 6 ft 4 in almost 300 lb guy grabbing for his gun. He’s quite lucky to be alive. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/4 "2014-10-22T19:41:36Z")
So why didn’t they release this evidence previously and avoid the riots? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/5 "2014-10-22T19:45:12Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > So why didn’t they release this evidence previously and avoid the riots? The unrest started within 24 hours of the event. > **[Timeline: Michael Brown shooting in Ferguson, Mo.](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/14/michael-brown-ferguson-missouri-timeline/14051827/)** > > How events in Ferguson, Mo., unfolded after Michael Brown was shot and killed by police. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/6 "2014-10-22T19:52:24Z")
I can think of two reasons: 1. They needed to investigate to determine the course of events, or 2. Releasing it immediately would make it look like they didn’t investigate and were simply making excuses for the killer cop who violated Brown’s rights. Even if this exonerates him there will still be people that will never believe it. Anything short of a conviction for murder will be seen as a miscarriage of justice. In a lot of ways the police have only themselves to blame for that, but there it is. EDIT: Also, it may not be true. Time will tell what happens from here. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/7 "2014-10-22T19:57:36Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > This will \*\*exonerate \*\*officer Darren Wilson. Clear proof he was fighting for control of his gun. The officer was being attacked and he had reason to be in fear for his life. Why do you feel that this autopsy report deserves more credence than the other autopsy report? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/8 "2014-10-22T20:05:31Z")
Officer Darren Wilson will need to get a new job. Maybe St Louis can hire him as a cop? He can’t go back to patrolling in Ferguson. It’s sad that some people won’t accept physical evidence provided by the autopsy. Brown’s blood and skin is right there on the patrol car. The cop is trapped inside with a guy reaching through the window and punching him. Yet some will still say a killer got away with it. It’s so frustrating that people will claim a cover up. The forensic evidence is over whelming and supports the cop’s statement. You can’t fake gun residue inside a wound. It’s on the guy’s thumb. It could only occur during a struggle for control of that gun. If necessary they could call in a Federal expert to confirm the results. Whatever it takes to satisfy the Ferguson residents. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Why do you feel that this autopsy report deserves more credence than the other autopsy report? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/9 "2014-10-22T20:12:00Z")
am i wrong to say this??? look at all the people who defended the cop BEFORE the evidence came out? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/10 "2014-10-22T20:17:03Z")
Incidents with bad cops are pretty rare. I don’t know the percents. Lets say, maybe 4%? A 100 shootings by cops, and 4 are questionable. Those 4 need very careful investigation. I would defend a cop the majority of the time. I give anyone who is putting their life at risk the benefit of doubt. At least until very clear evidence shows that the shooting is unjustified. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/11 "2014-10-22T20:18:13Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s sad that some people won’t accept physical evidence provided by the autopsy. Brown’s blood and skin is right there on the patrol car. The cop is trapped inside with a guy reaching through the window and punching him. Yet some will still say a killer got away with it. It’s so frustrating that people will claim a cover up. The forensic evidence is over whelming and supports the cop’s statement. And the police and forensic labs have been known to fabricate evidence to support the police. And once you throw away trust like that, it’s very difficult to get it back. The police, their labs and the courts can say what they like; but the people who have been lied to and abused aren’t likely to believe them. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/12 "2014-10-22T20:21:06Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And the police and forensic labs have been known to fabricate evidence to support the police. And once you throw away trust like that, it’s very difficult to get it back. The police, their labs and the courts can say what they like; but the people who have been lied to and abused aren’t likely to believe them. so your alternative is to believe the criminals??? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/13 "2014-10-22T20:30:38Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > am i wrong to say this??? > look at all the people who defended the cop BEFORE the evidence came out? As opposed to declaring him a racist murderer before the evidence came out? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/14 "2014-10-22T20:31:22Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Incidents with bad cops are pretty rare. I don’t know the percents. Lets say, maybe 4%? You don’t know the facts, so you’ll just make them up at random?? How does this contribute anything useful to the discussion? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/15 "2014-10-22T20:36:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > As opposed to declaring him a racist murderer before the evidence came out? what else would you call someone who shots a person with there hands up trying to surrender? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/16 "2014-10-22T20:37:07Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > **You can’t fake gun residue inside a wound.** It’s on the guy’s thumb. **It could only occur during a struggle for control of that gun.** If necessary they could call in a Federal expert to confirm the results. Whatever it takes to satisfy the Ferguson residents. Cite for the bolded assertions, please? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/17 "2014-10-22T20:39:56Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > what else would you call someone who shots a person with there hands up trying to surrender? What does that have to do with the Michael Brown case? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/18 "2014-10-22T20:44:46Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I hope this ends the rioting. You might hope. But the evidence isn’t all cut-and-dried and you’ll always have people who think the worst of cops because of too many negative encounters. If the officer isn’t indicted, I predict more rioting. Even if he’s eventually found not guilty, people will assume justice wasn’t done because there was no trial. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/19 "2014-10-22T20:46:30Z")
Autopsy report. First pages lists the wounds. Including on near the thumb. More information about the thumb wound is further into the report. The final page lists microscopic examination of tissue found on the police car. > **[PDF: Autopsy report for Michael Brown](https://www.stltoday.com/online/pdf-autopsy-report-for-michael-brown/pdf_ce018d0c-5998-11e4-b700-001a4bcf6878.html)** > > Click here to view this item from https://www.stltoday.com. I hope the full grand jury testimony is released. I’d very much like to see how the independent Federal experts testified about the autopsy and other forensic evidence. What conclusions did they have? Hopefully we’ll know very soon. It’s going to take this kind of testimony to fully exonerate the officer in the public’s minds. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Cite for the bolded assertions, please? ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/20 "2014-10-22T20:57:48Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Incidents with bad cops are pretty rare. I don’t know the percents. Lets say, maybe 4%? A 100 shootings by cops, and 4 are questionable. Those 4 need very careful investigation. > > I would defend a cop the majority of the time. I give anyone who is putting their life at risk the benefit of doubt. At least until very clear evidence shows that the shooting is unjustified. There are no stats on police misconduct so we have no idea how often it happens. The Daily Show did a piece on it recently. The stats are not kept. Personally I would not give them the benefit of the doubt. And often they do not put therir life on the line. [Here](http://www.cracked.com/article_21830_cops-wont-help-you-7-things-i-saw-as-real-slasher-victim.html) is a recent story where two cops let a stabbing victim disarm his own attacker while they locked a door to protect themselves. I know there are good cops, honest cops and brave cops but I think there are just as many awful ones. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167.md?page=2)