# Michael Brown evidence slowly being released. Case is falling apart. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 22, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167 "2014-10-22T18:08:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/181 "2014-11-12T20:35:26Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The shop owners are preparing for the expected riots. The police are preparing for the expected riots. The National Guard is prepared for the expect riots. The residents are preparing for the expected riots. MSNBC and CNN are drooling at the thought of the added revenue from covering the riots. > > The question is, which one of the non-residential outside groups is going to start the violence. I agree. The minute a protester shows up with a sign their face will be all over the news. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/182 "2014-11-12T20:40:05Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > And the last two people who ‘shot themselves while wearing handcuffs’? How’s that investigation going? I’ll bet nothing comes of any of it. Yeah right, that could never happen right? I don’t know about two incidents but I do remember one. There was dashcam footage. It is pointed forward but you can hear clearly. The officer is in the front. You hear the shot in the back. You hear the officer cry out, open the front door, then open the rear door to check on the person who had just shot himself. Yes it can happen. I can’t move my arms more than two inches when in cuffs. But I have seen people flip their arms from back to front in cuffs. I saw a guy with his arms cuffed behind him reach into his pocket, put a cigarette in his mouth, light it and smoke all with his arms still behind and cuffed. A little head bend and raising his arms up on one side. So you don’t always just know everything. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/183 "2014-11-12T20:42:48Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I have no first hand knowledge of the Ferguson police practices. In general a 50 man department does not have a large detective bureau or their own crime scene unit. An individual detective can handle a less important scene on their own. A major crime will be handled either by the county or the state. And they are usually not waiting around like fighter pilots ready to scramble. After the initial action is over it is the responsibility of the patrol officers to secure the scene and wait for the crime scene crew. Depending on how far away they are and what they are involved in at the time it may take a while. The body is a key piece of evidence. Maybe _the_ key piece of evidence. It does not get moved until it is fully recorded and documented. If they had moved the body quickly without it being fully documented there would be an uproar about contaminating the crime scene. I don’t know the exact reason why there was a delay. For PR reasons it would be important to move the body as soon as possible. For investigative purposes it is more important to get it right rather than fast. The police were receiving death threat from the mob and there were reports of shots being fired. The coroner could not get to the body until the crime scene was secure and it took 4 hours before the crime scene could be secured. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/184 "2014-11-12T20:43:57Z")
I’m thankful the Cold weather got here in time. Let it Snow, Let it Snow in Ferguson and then announce the verdict. The colder it is the less people will be out on the streets. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/185 "2014-11-12T20:45:21Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The police were receiving death threat from the mob and there were reports of shots being fired. The coroner could not get to the body until the crime scene was secure and it took 4 hours before the crime scene could be secured. The coroner is usually only one part of the crime scene crew. An important part of course. And not a police officer so you are right, they will not go to an unsecured scene. I did not see a credible source with that information(I wasn’t looking) but it sounds plausible. And on a 50 man department there were probably only a handful of cops working at anytime which makes securing a scene with a growing mob a lot more difficult. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/186 "2014-11-12T20:57:05Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The coroner is usually only one part of the crime scene crew. An important part of course. And not a police officer so you are right, they will not go to an unsecured scene. I did not see a credible source with that information(I wasn’t looking) but it sounds plausible. > > And on a 50 man department there were probably only a handful of cops working at anytime which makes securing a scene with a growing mob a lot more difficult. I had posted a link earlier in either this thread or one of the others. I’ll see if I can locate it later. IIRC, I believe the SWAT team was engaged at another location at the time of the Brown shooting. One thing at a time. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/187 "2014-11-12T21:34:54Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m thankful the Cold weather got here in time. Let it Snow, Let it Snow in Ferguson and then announce the verdict. The colder it is the less people will be out on the streets. Or at the very least, there will be some _hilarious_ slipping and sliding once the tear-gassing starts. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/188 "2014-11-13T05:30:36Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The coroner is usually only one part of the crime scene crew. An important part of course. And not a police officer so you are right, they will not go to an unsecured scene. I did not see a credible source with that information(I wasn’t looking) but it sounds plausible. > > And on a 50 man department there were probably only a handful of cops working at anytime which makes securing a scene with a growing mob a lot more difficult. The linked article was originally posted by **Fotheringay-Phipps** in the Ferguson, MO thread. It appears that the Ferguson police were under attack by the mob and that’s why it took 4 hours to secure the crime scene. The CNN interviewers are still allowing their various “experts” to claim that Brown’s body lay in the street because of police indifference or inaction. It appears that CNN is indifferent to the facts. \*To determine why the body remained on the street for hours, the Post-Dispatch analyzed public records, police testimony, medical examiner procedures and data from previous crime scenes, and interviewed medical examiner staff, police officials, Canfield Green residents and others. The newspaper has put together the most comprehensive public account chronicling the police response in the hours after Brown’s death. …Two minutes earlier, Wilson had left a 911 call a half-mile away, on Glenark Drive, police and emergency logs show. He had accompanied an ambulance to the home, where a 2-month-old was having trouble breathing. …When the paramedic determined Brown was dead, the care of his body legally transferred to the St. Louis County Medical Examiner. By law, police cannot touch the body. But since most medical examiners won’t set foot in the crime scene until it is processed by police, the fate of Brown’s body was back in police hands. …But at 12:10 p.m., county police began to flood the scene with cars: By 1 p.m., they had dispatched more than a dozen units, according to the county log. By 2 p.m., a dozen more, including two with police dogs. …At 2:11 p.m., Ferguson police logs captured reports of shots fired. At 2:14 p.m., ambulance dispatch noted additional gunshots, then a Code 1000, calling all available jurisdictions to help. Over the next 20 minutes, the first precinct dispatched more than 20 units from at least eight different municipal forces, from Bel-Ridge to St. John to Velda City. …About 2:30 p.m., Calvin Whitaker, the livery service driver, arrived to pick up Brown’s body. One end of Canfield was blocked off by police and emergency vehicles. At the other end, a crowd stood in his way. “ **They were screaming, ‘Let’s kill the police** ,’” he said. People flung water bottles at his black SUV, he said, cussed at his wife and called them murderers. A police officer told them to stay in the car. “You guys do not have vests,” he told them. “The best thing for you to do is get down.” Whitaker and his wife reclined their seats and hunkered down. …At 2:45 p.m., four more canine units arrived. At 3:20 p.m., tactical operations officers — the county SWAT team — began pulling in. Finally, about 4 p.m., police officers gave the medical examiner investigator, then Whitaker and his wife, the go-ahead to take Brown’s body to the morgue.\* > **[Why was Michael Brown's body left there for hours?](https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-courts/why-was-michael-brown-s-body-left-there-for-hours/article_0b73ec58-c6a1-516e-882f-74d18a4246e0.html)** > > As crowds gathered, investigators found a scene so volatile, so dangerous, it caught them by surprise. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/189 "2014-11-13T05:33:41Z")
And where were the backup officers to secure the Ferguson crime scene? \*St. Louis County detectives on duty that day weren’t close to Ferguson then. They were at St. Anthony’s Medical Center, near Sunset Hills, 30 miles south. Six hours earlier, a man with a gun had entered a hospice house there, taken a clerk into the building to find drugs and then disappeared. The hospital had been on lockdown for hours. County SWAT teams had sent at least 13 cars to the scene. When a St. Louis County watch commander, one of the first county brass to arrive at Canfield, contacted dispatch to get help in Ferguson, the dispatcher said, “They’re all working on that call down in South County. Let me know if you need them, and we’ll try to raise them. It’ll be an ETA from South County, though.”\* > **[Why was Michael Brown's body left there for hours?](https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/why-was-michael-brown-s-body-left-there-for-hours/article_0b73ec58-c6a1-516e-882f-74d18a4246e0.html)** > > As crowds gathered, investigators found a scene so volatile, so dangerous, it caught them by surprise. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/190 "2014-11-13T05:38:43Z")
Timeline: Four hours after the Michael Brown shooting - _12:02 p.m. Ferguson police Officer Darren Wilson reports “disturbance in progress” in Canfield Green housing complex. 12:03 p.m. Resident tweets: “I JUST SAW SOMEONE DIE OMFG” about 12:05 p.m. Ambulance on unrelated call comes upon scene. Paramedic checks Brown for pulse, decides injuries “incompatible with life,” leaves body in street. 12:08 p.m. Ferguson police call St. Louis County to report shooting. about 12:10 p.m. Firefighter covers body with sheet. 12:51 p.m. St. Louis County homicide detectives dispatched. 1:02 p.m. Crowd grows to hundreds. Police dispatch canine units. 2:12 p.m. Shots fired on Canfield by unknown assailant. 2:14 p.m. Chief Jackson calls Code 1000, summoning police from all available jurisdictions. 2:18 p.m. Crime scene unit arrives on scene. 2:30 p.m. Driver arrives to take body to morgue. “Let’s kill the police,” he hears. Medical examiner’s investigator also arrives; police say he can’t work until crowd calms down. 2:36 p.m. Resident tweets again: “Homie still on the ground tho”. 2:45 p.m. Tactical operations (SWAT) dispatched for crowd control. 3:07 p.m. Crime Scene Unit takes its first photos of the scene. about 4 p.m. Brown’s mother pleads with crowd, saying: “Please move back. All I want them to do is pick up my baby.” about 4:15 p.m. Driver loads Brown’s body for five-mile trip to morgue. 4:37 p.m. Body checked into morgue._ > **[Timeline: Four hours after the Michael Brown shooting](https://www.stltoday.com/timeline-four-hours-after-the-michael-brown-shooting/table_79c7ed69-4fbe-57fb-bf77-e1888dfffd4e.html)** > > Michael Brown was fatally shot shortly after noon. His body wasn’t removed from the street until around 4:15 p.m. Here is a timeline of what happened during those hours. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/191 "2014-11-13T06:34:24Z")
I wonder if any evidence was destroyed or damaged during the four hours it took to secure the crime scene… ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/192 "2014-11-13T14:59:28Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I wonder if any evidence was destroyed or damaged during the four hours it took to secure the crime scene… You could say that if it was 10 minutes or 12 hours. However in this case the complaint was that the body was laying there in public view for a long time. As pictures from the time show there were witnesses to what may have happened to the body the entire time. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/193 "2014-11-13T18:31:44Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I wonder if any evidence was destroyed or damaged during the four hours it took to secure the crime scene… There were police officers, an ambulance crew, firefighters, the witness to Brown’s strong armed robbery, multiple camera/phone users, and, of course, an angry lynch mob. Any one of them could have destroyed, damaged, or added evidence. The trick would be to do so without any of the others witnessing the act. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/194 "2014-11-13T18:36:16Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > There were police officers, an ambulance crew, firefighters, the witness to Brown’s strong armed robbery, multiple camera/phone users, and, of course, an angry lynch mob. Any one of them could have destroyed, damaged, or added evidence. The trick would be to do so without any of the others witnessing the act. I was more thinking of accidental or inadvertent loss of evidence, and the rather sad irony that the protests that could have prevented it being collected could lead to the officer being acquitted. There’s always the opportunity for the authorities to destroy evidence, but I don’t see this situation as making it any more likely, and the extra scrutiny on the case would hopefully bring it to light if it did happen. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/195 "2014-11-13T20:54:22Z")
Why did Browns parents address the UN? WTF? It’s like everyone in the world is sticking their heads in the sand on this one. Also, has anyone seen the “Rules of Engagement” that one of the protest groups sent to the police for when the Grand Jury results are announced? I’ll have to try to find it somewhere when I get home but it was pretty comical. Are alot of cops fucked in the head? Yes. Do alot of cops act out of line? Hell yes they do. In this particular case the volume of outrage is drowning out the key fact which is Brown is dead because of what Brown did. No more no less. Community outrage at police behavior doesn’t change that fact. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/196 "2014-11-14T15:16:31Z")
You’ve gotta love the Brown family’s “expert” claiming there was no evidence of a struggle. Looks like a classic case of getting the conclusion you were paid to reach. I saw a news clip where he said (wording approximate) “The gun was at least a foot away. Could be 30 feet.” Great job there, Sherlock. In my book, a guy standing a foot away from me is pretty freakin’ close. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167.md?page=9)