# Michael Brown evidence slowly being released. Case is falling apart. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 22, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167 "2014-10-22T18:08:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/21 "2014-10-22T21:03:05Z")
**Aceplace** , not a criticism, but when you quote another poster and put his quote at the bottom of your reply instead of leading with the quote, it takes me out of the flow of the conversation. It’s not really annoyance, but it’s contrary to how other posters respond to comments. I’m not insisting you change what you do, but I’ve wanted to mention this for a long time. Please take this in the spirit in which it’s offered. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/22 "2014-10-22T21:07:43Z")
I thought people expected all quoted material at the bottom. I hadn’t noticed an exception for quoting a prior SDMB post. I can post those first if that’s what is preferred. It doesn’t make any difference to me. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/23 "2014-10-22T21:07:56Z")
I’m confused. How does this exonerate the officer? The perp is pulled into the car, there is a struggle for the gun, the perp is shot in the hand and runs THE OFFICER SHOOTS AT AN UNARMED FLEEING SUBJECT, the subject stops and puts his hands up in the air and the officer shoots him dead. How does the perps blood on the gun change that story? (If it happened) ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/24 "2014-10-22T21:14:30Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > I’m confused. How does this exonerate the officer? > > The perp is pulled into the car, there is a struggle for the gun, the perp is shot in the hand and runs THE OFFICER SHOOTS AT AN UNARMED FLEEING SUBJECT, the subject stops and puts his hands up in the air and the officer shoots him dead. > > How does the perps blood on the gun change that story? (If it happened) is there video of this? (i thought there was a video right) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/25 "2014-10-22T21:14:35Z")
The other wounds (particularly the head) indicate the man was charging at the officer. The quote above explains his arm wounds indicate they weren’t extended up in the “I surrender” posture. Granted, this is an interpretation of the wounds by the medical examiner. I hope other independent experts testified too. It would help if there was a consensus of opinions. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/26 "2014-10-22T21:21:39Z")
Can someone explain to me how this evidence exonerates Wilson. All it tells me is that Wilson first shot Brown in the hand at close range before shooting him several more times? Besides Wilson’s claim what evidence exists that there was a struggle over the gun? Seems to me if Brown was trying to get the gun away to use himself he wouldn’t be sticking his thumb in front of the barrel, but if he was trying to stop Russel from shooting him he would try to put his palm or fingers on the barrel leaving his thumb out to get shot. In addition if Brown was shot in the thumb at close range it makes sense the remaining shots were fired while he was running away. So please tell me what information I’ve missed that somehow exonerates Darren Wilson. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/27 "2014-10-22T21:22:44Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The other wounds indicate the man was charging at the officer. The quote above explains his arms weren’t up in the I surrender posture. > > Granted, this is an interpretation of the wounds by the medical examiner. I hope other independent experts testified too. It would help if their was a consensus of opinions. You’ve been shot, you’ve run 30 feet, bullets are whizzing around you…and you turn to charge? That makes no sense. With what little info I have, I would guess that Brown raised his hands and tried to surrender. I would also guess that the officer was dazed and scared as \*\*\*\* and just kept firing. If everyone says he’s a good man and has no prior incidents, we should probably close the case and leave it as such. Btw, I also don’t see how blood on the gun exonerates the officer if the officer drew the gun and shot the guy at point blank range with the guy raising his hands to shield himself. I’m not saying that’s what happened, but just spitballing a scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/28 "2014-10-22T21:22:55Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Can someone explain to me how this evidence exonerates Wilson. All it tells me is that Wilson first shot Brown in the hand at close range before shooting him several more times? Besides Wilson’s claim what evidence exists that there was a struggle over the gun? Seems to me if Brown was trying to get the gun away to use himself he wouldn’t be sticking his thumb in front of the barrel, but if he was trying to stop Russel from shooting him he would try to put his palm or fingers on the barrel leaving his thumb out to get shot. In addition if Brown was shot in the thumb at close range it makes sense the remaining shots were fired while he was running away. > > So please tell me what information I’ve missed that somehow exonerates Darren Wilson. blood inside the police car ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/29 "2014-10-22T21:24:02Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > blood inside the police car Of course there was blood in the police car. That’s where he shot Brown in the thumb. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/30 "2014-10-22T21:25:53Z")
Until the full case evidence is revealed no one can make a actual educated opinion on what happened. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And the police and forensic labs have been known to fabricate evidence to support the police. And once you throw away trust like that, it’s very difficult to get it back. The police, their labs and the courts can say what they like; but the people who have been lied to and abused aren’t likely to believe them. Well in this case there were several autopsies performed including one from the Brown family. So far I haven’t seen anything stating the independent examiners found anything fabricated. > [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > I’m confused. How does this exonerate the officer? > > The perp is pulled into the car, there is a struggle for the gun, the perp is shot in the hand and runs THE OFFICER SHOOTS AT AN UNARMED FLEEING SUBJECT, the subject stops and puts his hands up in the air and the officer shoots him dead. > > How does the perps blood on the gun change that story? (If it happened) The most illogical thing would be to think that Wilson was trying to pull that giant through a car window. All police training makes you react to try and get out of the car where you aren’t trapped. And none of the forensic evidence that is available shows that he was fleeing or trying to give up. Just the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/31 "2014-10-22T21:28:35Z")
It’s always been clear to me that Brown attacked Wilson at the police car. Wilson wouldn’t have tried to confront and arrest Brown from inside his car. He would’ve wanted to get out first. However, in no way does the autopsy report exonerate Wilson. Brown was killed outside of the car thirty feet away. Unless you’re trying to say it’s ok for a cop to shoot a guy dead because he’s mad the guy attacked him first? ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/32 "2014-10-22T21:29:02Z")
In fact the phrasing the pathologist gives just stinks of faulty, voodoo forensics and further supports the idea that officials are circling the wagons . “Particulate matter proves he was reaching for the weapon” The \*\*\*\* it does. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/33 "2014-10-22T21:34:42Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Of course there was blood in the police car. That’s where he shot Brown in the thumb. well, i guess that is possible it seems odd to shoot somone in the thumb if they are just sitting i n the back seat of a police car minding their own buisness ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/34 "2014-10-22T21:36:16Z")
If people don’t want to believe Dr. Gershom Norfleet’s official county autopsy than that’s their problem. The county medical examiner is a key witness in any trial that involves the death of an individual. Their testimony carries a great deal of gravitas. It’s often a vital component of a DA’s case. Fortunately in this high profile case there should be other independent experts testifying too. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/35 "2014-10-22T21:42:03Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Can someone explain to me how this evidence exonerates Wilson. All it tells me is that Wilson first shot Brown in the hand at close range before shooting him several more times? Besides Wilson’s claim what evidence exists that there was a struggle over the gun? Seems to me if Brown was trying to get the gun away to use himself he wouldn’t be sticking his thumb in front of the barrel, but if he was trying to stop Russel from shooting him he would try to put his palm or fingers on the barrel leaving his thumb out to get shot. In addition if Brown was shot in the thumb at close range it makes sense the remaining shots were fired while he was running away. > > So please tell me what information I’ve missed that somehow exonerates Darren Wilson. Not necessarily exonerates Wilson but it certainly seems to at least partially match his account. If there was a struggle for the gun it’s not like one or the other were remaining stationary. Both hands would be moving. The gun would be moving. No one is saying Brown purposely put his thumb in front of the barrel. It would be a quick violence and confusing struggle. > [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > You’ve been shot, you’ve run 30 feet, bullets are whizzing around you…and you turn to charge? That makes no sense. With what little info I have, I would guess that Brown raised his hands and tried to surrender. I would also guess that the officer was dazed and scared as \*\*\*\* and just kept firing. If everyone says he’s a good man and has no prior incidents, we should probably close the case and leave it as such. > > Btw, I also don’t see how blood on the gun exonerates the officer if the officer drew the gun and shot the guy at point blank range with the guy raising his hands to shield himself. I’m not saying that’s what happened, but just spitballing a scenario. He was raising his hands to shield himself while sitting on Wilson’s lap? If the current reports are accurate they state that the physical evidence on Wilson, Brown, the interior of the car and the gun are consistent with the shot to the thumb occurring while Brown was in the interior of the car with Wilson. Now all of this helps Wilson’s credibility. At least some of the forensic evidence matches his account. The most important part is what was happening when the fatal shots happened. What we know is Brown was not running away. All shots were to the front. The bullet hits are not consistent with Brown raising his hands. The one are shot was not consistent with a palm out surrender pose. But what we know now doesn’t tell us exactly what was going on. But it may show that there is not enough to go forward with charges. And there very well may be other information not yet released that may shed more light on the incident. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/36 "2014-10-22T21:45:09Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I thought people expected all quoted material at the bottom. Have you seriously not picked up on the fact that you’re the only person on this mb who does this? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/37 "2014-10-22T21:45:46Z")
I have to stop writing long posts on my phone. Eyes getting too old and my thumbs are too clumsy. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/38 "2014-10-22T21:50:38Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Have you seriously not picked up on the fact that you’re the only person on this mb who does this? Fraid not. Every board I’ve ever used wanted any quoted material at the bottom. The idea being the post is what matters and the quote is a reference. I’ll do it backwards if that is preferred here. Quotes on top. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/39 "2014-10-22T21:50:43Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Not necessarily exonerates Wilson but it certainly seems to at least partially match his account. If there was a struggle for the gun it’s not like one or the other were remaining stationary. Both hands would be moving. The gun would be moving. No one is saying Brown purposely put his thumb in front of the barrel. It would be a quick violence and confusing struggle. Ok, that’s fair. I think the word exoneration doesn’t fit in here. We know something happened that resulted in Brown’s hand being shot in or near the car, and a struggle for the gun is one of the possibilities, but a struggle is not necessary, just Brown trying to keep from getting shot. I don’t know what happened, eventually we’ll see the entirety of the evidence. These revelations aren’t conclusive. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/40 "2014-10-22T22:02:14Z")
This thread makes a valid point that in the age of the 24 hour news cycle no one can be exonerated. There’s no way to undo the damage of nonstop articles about this case. The riots and violence poisoned the well. For many people, Officer Darren Wilson will always be the racist cop that shot an unarmed black teenager. His fate was sealed within days of the shooting. Fortunately he can be exonerated within the US court system. I hope for his sake the entire grand jury transcript is released. Transparency can go a long way in building trust in the Justice system. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167.md?page=3)