# Michael Brown evidence slowly being released. Case is falling apart. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 22, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167 "2014-10-22T18:08:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/61 "2014-10-23T04:13:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Do you think you can assault a police officer and walk away? It’s a given that he was going to be arrested. There were eye witnesses that said he doubled back on the officer.[ There are NO eyewitnesses that say Brown doubled back on Wilson. That is only Wilson’s account. The Washington Post wrote a story saying that there are some ANONYMOUS witnesses who back Wilson’s account who are afraid to come forward. But as of now, they haven’t. There are at least 8 witnesses that say Brown was STANDING when he was shot, not charging. Some say his hands were up, others not > [@Magiver](#): > > Unless something new comes out the evidence supports the officer. His hands were not up in the air. The entry/exit wounds don’t support it. This is what I mean when I say people read the report emotionally instead of logically. Brown was shot six times. Just because ONE shot was made when his arms were not up doesn’t mean his arms were NEVER up. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/62 "2014-10-23T05:38:27Z")
All I know is that if someone assaulted me in my house, then he ran out into the street, turned around and the final, fatal shot was in the top of his head…several people here would claim I executed him and say that the lethal force part of the engagement ended as soon as he turned his back to run…just like in that ‘help me get an idea what a jury will say’ thread. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/63 "2014-10-23T05:41:18Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Autopsy report. First pages lists the wounds. Including on near the thumb. More information about the thumb wound is further into the report. The final page lists microscopic examination of tissue found on the police car. > [PDF: Autopsy report for Michael Brown](http://www.stltoday.com/online/pdf-autopsy-report-for-michael-brown/pdf_ce018d0c-5998-11e4-b700-001a4bcf6878.html) > > I hope the full grand jury testimony is released. I’d very much like to see how the independent Federal experts testified about the autopsy and other forensic evidence. What conclusions did they have? Hopefully we’ll know very soon. It’s going to take this kind of testimony to fully exonerate the officer in the public’s minds. Your cites do not back up your assertions; they are merely repetitions of the assertions. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/64 "2014-10-23T05:46:11Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > In fact the phrasing the pathologist gives just stinks of faulty, voodoo forensics and further supports the idea that officials are circling the wagons . “Particulate matter proves he was reaching for the weapon” The \*\*\*\* it does. Aye, that’s the kind of bullshit that I see in the things that **aceplace** keeps quoting and pointing to, but he has yet to say why he gives this report any more credence than he gives any other autopsy report. ATM I’m guessing that it’s confirmation bias, but I dunno for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/65 "2014-10-23T06:02:03Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Fraid not. Every board I’ve ever used wanted any quoted material at the bottom. The idea being the post is what matters and the quote is a reference. > > I’ll do it backwards if that is preferred here. Quotes on top. Are you saying that you don’t see other people quoting first then replying to the quote when you look at posts? Because literally EVERY other person on this board and every post involving a quote (except the ones you post) have the quote \> reply format. Just like this post does. EATA: Ah I see that others have convinced **aceplace** of his folly! Woot! GJ guys and welcome to more coherent posting, **aceplace**! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/66 "2014-10-23T06:07:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes, the autopsy showed THC in his blood and urine which suggests he smoked within a couple hours of the event. The cigars he stole are a favorite for use in making blunts. There is no test I know of that can detect active THC in urine. Could you link to that part of the autopsy report, so I can see what test they used? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/67 "2014-10-23T11:11:24Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > There are NO eyewitnesses that say Brown doubled back on Wilson. That is only Wilson’s account. The Washington Post wrote a story saying that there are some ANONYMOUS witnesses who back Wilson’s account who are afraid to come forward. But as of now, they haven’t. There are at least 8 witnesses that say Brown was STANDING when he was shot, not charging. Some say his hands were up, others not > > This is what I mean when I say people read the report emotionally instead of logically. Brown was shot six times. Just because ONE shot was made when his arms were not up doesn’t mean his arms were NEVER up. We don’t have the grand jury testimony of any witnesses. We have many accounts made to the media. Under questioning and under oath much “eyewitness” testimony turns out to be anything but. People want to be part of the story. People want to seem important. People change when news cameras are around. They repeat rumor as fact. They combine what they hear from others with what they actually saw to make themselves seem more important. During actual investigator interviews a lot of that bullshit is peeled away and a more accurate picture comes out. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/68 "2014-10-23T13:13:57Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And the police and forensic labs have been known to fabricate evidence to support the police. And once you throw away trust like that, it’s very difficult to get it back. The police, their labs and the courts can say what they like; but the people who have been lied to and abused aren’t likely to believe them. I didn’t know that. Sure, you see it in TV, but I don’t recall it actually happening in real life; and certainly not in Ferguson. Is this one of those things where you believe you can’t trust any forensic lab in the country because one lab, in one city fabricated evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Abracadebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Abracadebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abracadebra)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/69 "2014-10-23T14:46:12Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > This is a case that pushes all of the buttons. It’s like a perfect storm of political controversy. I agree that many cops abuse their power. I am white but I totally believe that most police (but not all) racial profile and harass minorities. What I’ve always found suspicious about this case, however, is the claim that a police officer shot a person who had their hands up trying to surrender. Even for the most racist cop that seems excessive (not saying the officer is racist). I agree with you. Although this case is at its core about Michael Brown, the people are rioting about their treatment by the cops, the profiling, the tinge of menace the police employ, and lastly, the disrespect shown to Brown by leaving his dead body uncovered for hours in the street. ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/70 "2014-10-23T15:00:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Nowhere on the video you cited does it show him paying for the items. And the link you posted was from a person calling himself OllieGarkey" (a play on the word oligarchy). He lists his occupation as “Political Operative”. > > If you run the video out it’s consistent with what the police said it represented and that’s the clerk going ahead of Brown trying to lock the door. This is when Brown pushes him out of the way. The clerk then steps forward again and Brown menaces him. The clerk follows him out looking for him. He then goes back into the store and again goes outside looking around. > > This appears to be the actions of someone who was robbed. The person you’re citing thinks differently. quote: “The confrontation between Brown and the clerk may have been because Brown impatiently reached across the counter". I’m saying the events are disputed. You somehow knew for a fact that he was a criminal. How did you know? ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/71 "2014-10-23T16:13:59Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > We don’t have the grand jury testimony of any witnesses. We have many accounts made to the media. Under questioning and under oath much “eyewitness” testimony turns out to be anything but. People want to be part of the story. People want to seem important. People change when news cameras are around. They repeat rumor as fact. They combine what they hear from others with what they actually saw to make themselves seem more important. During actual investigator interviews a lot of that bullshit is peeled away and a more accurate picture comes out. Surely that will be the prosecutors argument after the no-indictment. But no one is gonna reasonably say that a man was standing and later change that to he was charging. That’s too big of a jump. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/72 "2014-10-23T16:34:18Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > But no one is gonna reasonably say that a man was standing and later change that to he was charging. That’s too big of a jump. Do you have any kind of a cite to back this assertion up? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/73 "2014-10-23T16:36:36Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > [No it was not.](http://sfbayview.com/2014/08/mike-brown-appears-to-have-paid-for-those-cigars/) I’m pretty sure that Johnson, who was with Brown, admitted that they stole the cigars. That kind of trumps some sort of vague attempt to review a shakey surveillance camera footage, showing Brown shoving the clerk as he’s leaving the store with a box of cigars, as _paying for them._ ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/74 "2014-10-23T16:37:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Do you have any kind of a cite to back this assertion up? > > Regards, > Shodan You want a cite for his opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/75 "2014-10-23T16:47:33Z")
I want a cite for his assertion. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/76 "2014-10-23T16:49:21Z")
You appear to have mistaken an opinion for a statement of fact, but I’ll wait until **JesterX** replies to see what his take on your request is. ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/77 "2014-10-23T17:06:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Do you have any kind of a cite to back this assertion up? > > Regards, > Shodan Good point. I should’ve added . . . Unless he/she was threatened or intimidated. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/78 "2014-10-23T17:13:17Z")
I’m surprised people are doubting the official county medical examiner’s report. He’s not in the back pocket of small town Ferguson PD. He works for the biggest county in Missouri, St Louis County. Wiki lists the county population at close to a million people. It has to be quite a large and professional coroner’s office. The state’s trial cases rely on their reports and expert testimony. They have better things to do than cover up for one tiny town’s cops. This case is unique in there are at least two other autopsy reports that I’ve heard about. They were conducted by the Fed Justice Dept and an expert hired by the family. A cover up just isn’t possible in this case. I think the case has completely fallen apart. Information is getting leaked to prepare people for the grand jury’s decision. But that’s just speculation. Have they given a date for when the grand jury will finish? Are they still hearing from witnesses? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/79 "2014-10-23T17:15:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Unless he/she was threatened or intimidated. … Or was talked into it, or talked him/herself into it, or made a mistake either time, or recognized that they were under oath and subject to the laws against perjury. Or [QUOTE=Loach] People change when news cameras are around. They repeat rumor as fact. They combine what they hear from others with what they actually saw to make themselves seem more important. During actual investigator interviews a lot of that bullshit is peeled away and a more accurate picture comes out. [/QUOTE] Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/80 "2014-10-23T17:34:38Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m surprised people are doubting the official county medical examiner’s report. He’s not in the back pocket of small town Ferguson PD. He works for the biggest county in Missouri, St Louis County. Wiki lists the county population at close to a million people. It has to be quite a large and professional coroner’s office. The state’s trial cases rely on their reports and expert testimony. They have better things to do than cover up for one tiny town’s cops. > > This case is unique in there are at least two other autopsy reports that I’ve heard about. They were conducted by the Fed Justice Dept and an expert hired by the family. A cover up just isn’t possible in this case. > > I think the case has completely fallen apart. Information is getting leaked to prepare people for the grand jury’s decision. But that’s just speculation. > > Have they given a date for when the grand jury will finish? Are they still hearing from witnesses? I hate to tell you this but the autopsy report doesn’t dispute the account that Wilson unlawfully gunned down Brown. It’s rather neutral in that respect. You don’t have to disbelieve it to still think Wilson is guilty of murder or manslaughter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167.md?page=5)