# Michael Brown evidence slowly being released. Case is falling apart. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 22, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167 "2014-10-22T18:08:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/101 "2014-10-23T19:31:00Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > If by “fight him off” you mean “had to shoot him in the hand” then yeah. I suppose. That’s fighting him off, isn’t it? Brown wasn’t able to get control of the gun, right? > [@Cubsfan](#): > > You’re right. It does make ZERO sense. That’s why MB looks like such a dumbass for doing it. He didn’t. As I said, several independent witnesses said they did not see Brown charging Wilson. Wilson gunned him down because he was pissed off. > [@Cubsfan](#): > > Although, he was on his way to HVAC college so maybe he is a smart dude after all. No, he was probably not a great guy. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t unlawfully gunned down. Here’s my point, if Wilson defenders feel like he was RIGHT to kill Brown because he was attacked, then say that. But to try to bolster Wilson’s implausible account is beyond reason. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/102 "2014-10-23T19:32:30Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > The logical response to that idea is to stop and surrender. You keep mentioning what makes sense and what is logical and I can’t wrap my head around why you think MB would have been behaving logically and sensibly after robbing a gas station and minutes later walking down the middle of the street baked. ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/103 "2014-10-23T19:43:04Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > What makes you think he was ever “running away from him”? > > How does one “run away” 10 yds? I’d say it’s very possible that MB recoiled in shock/pain 10 yds from the police car after getting shot in the hand and cut up by the window don’t you? > > You really need to stand up and get a visual of what 10yds actually looks like. Seriously. I know you haven’t. How does one “run away” 10 yards? By putting one foot in front of the other really quickly. Whether he ran because he was in pain, or ran because he was trying to “run away”’ the point is he RAN 10 yards away, right? Sometimes people argue just to argue. So even in sudden shock/pain you’re saying he then decided to charge the gun? ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/104 "2014-10-23T19:47:24Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > Sometimes people argue just to argue. You can’t be serious… > [@JesterX](#): > > That’s fighting him off, isn’t it? Brown wasn’t able to get control of the gun, right? He fought him off by shooting him? THAT is arguing to argue. I guess he “fought him off” on his return trip again then by shooting him. :rolleyes: > [@JesterX](#): > > So even in sudden shock/pain you’re saying he then decided to charge the gun? The dude was BAKED. He was HIGH. How much pain do you think he was in? Why do you think people want to use the stuff he was smoking for pain control? Something tells me you hate white cops. Am I right? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/105 "2014-10-23T19:48:49Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > So he decides he’s not fast enough to run AWAY from a bullet but then decides he’s fast enough to run TOWARDS it? Silly. I agree with the first part (he’s not fast enough to get away) but the logical response to that idea is to sto and surrender. Setting aside the idea that a stoned convenience store robber is not the prime candidate for someone who would behave “logically” in a police shootout, it seems entirely reasonable that he could have thought he could charge the officer fast enough to take him down before being shot again. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/106 "2014-10-23T19:49:50Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > What about the opposite? Could Wilson have see Brown surrendering and mistaken that for a threat? It’s a possibility, but the forensic evidence indicates that that is not what happened. ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/107 "2014-10-23T19:51:03Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > There are emerging reports of several eye witnesses whose testimony before the grand jury support the accounts of officer Wilson. Yes, but on what level? Nobody disputes there was an altercation at Wilson’s vehicle. So any witness who says there was a fight at the vehicle is technically, backing up Wilson’s story. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/108 "2014-10-23T20:01:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s a possibility, but the forensic evidence indicates that that is not what happened. This is what, 4 times that you’ve repeated this. Is it true yet? Let’s go to what [this witness said](http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/workers-who-were-witnesses-provide-new-perspective-on-michael-brown/article_14a3e5f8-6c6a-5deb-92fe-87fcee622c29.html), a (white) construction worker who was working in the area. > [@](#): > > [H]e saw Brown running away from a police car. Wilson trailed about 10 to 15 feet behind, gun in hand. About 90 feet away from the car, the worker said, Wilson fired another shot at Brown, whose back was turned. > > The worker said Brown stumbled and then stopped, put his hands up, turned around and said, “OK, OK, OK, OK, OK.” … > > Wilson, gun drawn, also stopped about 10 feet in front of Brown, the worker said. > > Then Brown moved, the worker said. “He’s kind of walking back toward the cop.” He said Brown’s hands were still up. > > Wilson began backing up as he fired, the worker said. > > After the third shot, Brown’s hands started going down, and he moved about 25 feet toward Wilson, who kept backing away and firing. The worker said he could not tell from where he watched — about 50 feet away — if Brown’s motion toward Wilson after the shots was “a stumble to the ground” or “OK, I’m going to get you, you’re already shooting me.” Sound a little ambiguous? Let’s let him clarify. > [@](#): > > The worker interviewed by the Post-Dispatch disputed claims by Wilson’s defenders that Brown was running full speed at the officer. > > “I don’t know if he was going after him or if he was falling down to die,” he said. “It wasn’t a bull rush.” And this witness’s co-worker says the same thing. > [@](#): > > "I seen somebody staggering and running. And when he finally caught himself he threw his hands up and started screaming, ‘OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, OK.’” > > He said the officer “didn’t say, ‘Get on the ground.’ He didn’t say anything. At first his gun was down and then he … got about 8 to 10 feet away from him … I heard six, seven shots … it seemed like seven. Then he put his gun down. That’s when Michael stumbled forward. I’d say about 25 feet or so and then fell right on his face.” Nothing in there corroborates Wilson’s claim that he was being charged before he opened fire. The recent autopsy report does not contradict anything that these two witnesses say, no matter how much you insist otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/109 "2014-10-23T20:02:32Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > You can’t be serious… > He fought him off by shooting him? THAT is arguing to argue. I agree. Brown wanted to control of Wilson’s gun and Wilson stopped him. If you want to pore over the semantic of whether that constitutes “fighting him off” or not, have at it. > [@Cubsfan](#): > > The dude was BAKED. He was HIGH. How much pain do you think he was in? Why do you think people want to use the stuff he was smoking for pain control? YOU made the point that Brown stopped because of shock/pain. I was going with your point. If you want to contradict it now, then why did you make it in the first place? > [@Cubsfan](#): > > Something tells me you hate white cops. Am I right? Something tells me that the “something” that’s telling you things has a severely warped view of reality. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/110 "2014-10-23T20:39:30Z")
I didn’t even bother to follow this story when all the hoopla initially came out. I somehow knew, several weeks later, we would be in this spot, waiting for the next “police brutality” sensation to make us all forget this waste of time and effort. It gets inordinately tiring, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/111 "2014-10-23T21:13:05Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > The dude was BAKED. He was HIGH. How much pain do you think he was in? Why do you think people want to use the stuff he was smoking for pain control? Are you honestly suggesting that smoking marijuana can make you ignore a bullet wound? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/112 "2014-10-23T21:22:16Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Are you honestly suggesting that smoking marijuana can make you ignore a bullet wound? Well, how many times have _you_ been shot while under the influence? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/113 "2014-10-23T22:33:09Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > . Plus there’s a second suspect that was with Brown and\*\* might of\*\* been armed. Apologies, but this particular error is really starting to freak me out. It’s not a typo or a spelling issue, it is nonsensical and must be stamped out: It is “might’ve”’ a contraction of the words “might have”. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/114 "2014-10-23T22:39:16Z")
Didn’t think about might’ve. I was writing like it sounded. Correction noted. I’ll be more careful with conversational writing. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/115 "2014-10-23T23:08:56Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Are you honestly suggesting that smoking marijuana can make you ignore a bullet wound? Ignore? Probably for a little while. I’d say that the drugs must have significantly reduced any pain he was feeling because, I don’t know about you, but if I got shot in the thumb I would probably immediately drop to the ground and roll around in agony. The fact that he didn’t do that after being shot AND getting cut up by the window (I think I read this part, may be wrong) tells me he was feeling no pain. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/116 "2014-10-23T23:11:22Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > It gets inordinately tiring, doesn’t it? All of it does. But like I said earlier, the police have only themselves to blame. Things that they might have gotten away with years ago (and were wrong then) are now recorded by a dozen people with cellphones. People say it’s open season on police. I disagree, it’s more like open season on the people they wrong is over. It doesn’t take but a few bad actors to ruin the reputation of the rest. When something like this happens the police now have to demonstrate why they should be believed after so many examples proving why they shouldn’t be. It’s up to the police themselves to restore their reputation, “policing the police”, as it were. Rather than backing the scumbags that hide behind a badge they need to cut them loose. Only then will faith be restored. Now, I’m not saying that the officer in this case did wrong. I simply don’t know one way or the other. But I do know that 10 years ago me posting something like this would have been unthinkable. That is the measure of my loss of faith in the integrity of the police in this country. And THAT is what I find inordinately tiring about the whole situation. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/117 "2014-10-24T01:37:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The clerk then steps forward again and Brown menaces him. The clerk follows him out looking for him. He then goes back into the store and again goes outside looking around. > > This appears to be the actions of someone who was robbed. Or someone who was inappropriately acting as if he was robbed, and Brown might be rightly annoyed by that. Anyway the cop had no reason to act SO aggressively at the time of the arrest… The deceased may have been in an autistic state, I mean that he was high and not understanding any instructions and in a panicky state. When the car comes so close as to nearly run him over, Brown panics knowing that what might happen next is would be a \* an accidental shooting\*, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/118 "2014-10-24T01:58:30Z")
Unreal. ������ ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/119 "2014-10-24T02:10:33Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > There is no test I know of that can detect active THC in urine. Could you link to that part of the autopsy report, so I can see what test they used? Thanks. Can you link there is no known test for active THC in urine? Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167/120 "2014-10-24T02:24:29Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > I’m saying the events are disputed. You somehow knew for a fact that he was a criminal. How did you know? Because there’s a video that shows him taking the cigars and strong arming the clerk. Pretty hard to miss. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-brown-evidence-slowly-being-released-case-is-falling-apart/702167.md?page=7)