# Michael Corleone Was a Psychopath **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 22, 2014, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-corleone-was-a-psychopath/696173 "2014-08-22T05:12:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-corleone-was-a-psychopath/696173/61 "2014-08-26T02:28:28Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > And I think that deep down, he knew it was never really possible. They weren’t exactly Joe and Jack Kennedy. Why not? Joe Kennedy was a well known slimeball and he still managed to get his son elected President. If Sonny had lived, I don’t see why Michael couldn’t have risen the ranks politically to become a governor or senator. He was a war hero, he was smart and good-looking, and he had his father’s money and influence. Sounds a lot like Jack Kennedy to me. ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-corleone-was-a-psychopath/696173/62 "2014-08-26T03:59:56Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Arranged is a bit strong, I agree. But do look at the scene again, because the tone of how Michael goes about asking for the lady’s hand in marriage let’s the monster peek through. Michael makes clear to the lady’s father that he is an important mobster without directly saying so. I noticed that too. I didn’t view it as him being a monster but completely insensitive and backwards. I mean, he says “but then she’d lose her father…instead of gaining a husband.” Of course the father at this point is going to be all smiles and probably even push Apollonia to marry him because 1) he’s already threatened him and 2) he’s obviously connected to someone with money and power if he’s walking around with bodyguards not working. So it seems like the threat of violence and the prospect of becoming family with someone powerful is what Michael is intentionally or unintentionally holding over Mr. Vitelli’s head. ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-corleone-was-a-psychopath/696173/63 "2014-08-26T04:11:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The whole concept of the series is psychopathic in a way, or at least elitist…they’re there, tilling the fields and paying their feudal dues, and that’s that. Excellent post. I watched this film when I was younger and was rooting for Michael and them, because they’re the good guys. Yeah, there criminals but Vito is honorable. It’s the other families that set-up the Godfather and try to kill him. It’s the other families who want to start dealing drugs, or pimping women. Then when I got older I look back and think, Michael and the Corleone’s were just as big of scum bags as the other families. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-corleone-was-a-psychopath/696173/64 "2014-08-26T04:12:38Z")
In the book there was no mention of her family pressuring Appolonia to marry Michael. The guy he was staying with (I forget the name) tried to convince him not to pursue her further. Michael says something to the effect of she might not even be interested in him anyway, she might find him too old. In the movie it was obvious to me that she was very, very interested. In the book it goes into some detail about how amorous and eager she was on the wedding night. Michael was only threatening that she would “lose a father” if Vitelli gave away his whereabouts to his enemies. I generally thought that marrying did draw attention to him and ultimately led to Appolonia’s unintentional murder. The fact that she was marrying an American could not have been kept entirely secret from the people in the village and would eventually leak out to his enemies. ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-corleone-was-a-psychopath/696173/65 "2014-08-26T04:24:07Z")
In the film it does give the impression that she likes him because as soon as she sees him she stops in her tracks. So yeah, overall I’m sure it’s the director’s intention that she’s supposed to be in to him. But for me, it just rubbed me the wrong way on later viewings because of the culture I grew up around and how I see young women who marry dangerous guys only because they have money. But the one part that I will stick with is about the threat. He only mentions the threat when Vitelli brings up Michael’s nationality. It seemed like Michael already saw what Vitelli was possibly thinking about. This American must be on the run from someone if he’s over here with bodyguards and that can be his own leverage against these tough guys. But Michael turns it around and lets Vitelli know that it will be even worse for him if he goes that route. But I concede the rest. Apollonia was the one who seemed like she got struck by a thunderbolt. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-corleone-was-a-psychopath/696173/66 "2014-08-26T04:52:46Z")
> [@Gerald\_II](#): > > But I concede the rest. Apollonia was the one who seemed like she got struck by a thunderbolt. The book actually describes them both as being struck by “the thunderbolt” and goes on about how “the thunderbolt” is Sicilian legend. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-corleone-was-a-psychopath/696173/67 "2014-08-26T05:11:59Z")
> [@SaharaTea](#): > > Why not? Joe Kennedy was a well known slimeball and he still managed to get his son elected President. If Sonny had lived, I don’t see why Michael couldn’t have risen the ranks politically to become a governor or senator. He was a war hero, he was smart and good-looking, and he had his father’s money and influence. Sounds a lot like Jack Kennedy to me. So you’re saying that government is essentially a protection racket?\* :dubious: \*FYI, I don’t entirely disagree with you. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-corleone-was-a-psychopath/696173/68 "2014-08-26T05:14:11Z")
> [@SaharaTea](#): > > Why not? Joe Kennedy was a well known slimeball and he still managed to get his son elected President. If Sonny had lived, I don’t see why Michael couldn’t have risen the ranks politically to become a governor or senator. He was a war hero, he was smart and good-looking, and he had his father’s money and influence. Sounds a lot like Jack Kennedy to me. Ah, but when did Michael (or his father) ever express political ambitions? AFAIR, he didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-corleone-was-a-psychopath/696173/69 "2014-08-26T08:35:58Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Ah, but when did Michael (or his father) ever express political ambitions? AFAIR, he didn’t. Vito expected Michael to go into politics and tells him as much after Michael comes back. He also expresses regret that Michael had to join the family business: **Vito Corleone:** I knew Santino was going to have to go through all this and Fredo… well, Fredo was… But I, I never wanted this for you. I work my whole life, I don’t apologize, to take care of my family. And I refused to be a fool dancing on the strings held by all of those big shots. That’s my life, I don’t apologize for that. But I always thought that when it was your time, that you would be the one to hold the strings. Senator Corleone, Governor Corleone, something. **Michael:** Another pezzonovante. **Vito Corleone:** Well, there wasn’t enough time, Michael. There just wasn’t enough time. **Michael:** We’ll get there, Pop. We’ll get there. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-corleone-was-a-psychopath/696173/70 "2014-08-26T16:55:48Z")
The tragedy of the Godfather is expressed in that dialogue between father and son. Vito wanted great things for his family but because of what he started his one son is dead, his other son will be killed by a brother, his smartest son is a criminal who acts like a psychopath, and his daughter is estranged from the family. He achieved power and great wealth but it cost him everything he proclaimed to care about. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-corleone-was-a-psychopath/696173/71 "2014-08-26T17:04:31Z")
Vito as a loving father never really sold me. Running The Business was what he was about. Mama Corleone was the heart of that family. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-corleone-was-a-psychopath/696173/72 "2014-08-27T02:39:46Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Vito expected Michael to go into politics and tells him as much after Michael comes back. He also expresses regret that Michael had to join the family business: > > **Vito Corleone:** I knew Santino was going to have to go through all this and Fredo… well, Fredo was… But I, I never wanted this for you. I work my whole life, I don’t apologize, to take care of my family. And I refused to be a fool dancing on the strings held by all of those big shots. That’s my life, I don’t apologize for that. But I always thought that when it was your time, that you would be the one to hold the strings. Senator Corleone, Governor Corleone, something. > > **Michael:** Another pezzonovante. > > **Vito Corleone:** Well, there wasn’t enough time, Michael. There just wasn’t enough time. > > **Michael:** We’ll get there, Pop. We’ll get there. Kind of lame ambitions, IMHO. Doesn’t sound like they had one-tenth the drive of the Kennedys. I think they both knew where their true path lay. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-corleone-was-a-psychopath/696173/73 "2014-08-27T22:43:52Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > One note…Michael seems determined to get his brother-in-law to admit his complicity in Sonny’s death. In the book, Tom is stunned that Mike is continuing this discourse. Tom felt that, innocent or not, once you determine a man is guilty, you don’t haggle over the details or question yourself. That’s not quite what Tom felt. The book stated that 'this thing had been checked out as much _as it could be’_, or words to that effect. Tom was shocked that Michael was still too uncertain. Tom, himself, knew that there was no way to get more information. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-corleone-was-a-psychopath/696173/74 "2014-08-27T22:59:04Z")
> [@MovieMogul](#): > > Michael clearly relishes telling the story that he did, about the brains or the signature. It is a shocking story, cold and mercenary the way he conveys it, and there’s no reason to be so graphic _except_ to brag, by association. The book points out that he had been \*\*\*\*\*reticent \*\*\*\*\*to tell it, but, that he told it to give her the whole situation in re: his family’s dark side. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-corleone-was-a-psychopath/696173/75 "2014-08-28T01:54:12Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Are you sure about that? I thought psychopaths were usually pretty obviously dysfunctional. Either way, if Michael was a psychopath who wanted to blend in, why not just go into the family business to start with? He’d have fit in just fine, there. It’s been a bit since you asked this, but my take is that psychopaths are not necessarily obvious. I know that some people use the socio/psycho -path distinction to differentiate serial killers from successful CEOs, and I wouldn’t have a problem conceding to that distinction if it matters to anyone. However, looking at [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy), we get this definition of psychopath: > [@](#): > > Psychopathy (or sociopathy) is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse, and disinhibited or bold behavior. Sounds like a perfect fit to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-corleone-was-a-psychopath/696173.md?page=3)