# Michael Flynn reportedly agrees to cooperate with FBI on Russia ties in exchange for immunity **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 31, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391 "2017-03-31T00:05:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391/21 "2017-03-31T14:56:26Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > For the life of me, I can’t imagine Trump not pardoning himself. Then he’d hold the signed pardon up for the cameras and mug for them as if he was a first grader showing everyone the gold star on his schoolwork. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391/22 "2017-03-31T14:59:09Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > For the life of me, I can’t imagine Trump not pardoning himself. He’s pissed off the judiciary. A judge could say he can’t do that. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391/23 "2017-03-31T15:00:39Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You left out the best part of the article: > > “In September, criticizing Hillary Clinton over former aides being given immunity deals as part of an investigation into her private email server, Flynn said, “When you’re given immunity that means you’ve probably committed a crime.”” Blatant hypocrisy from a present-day Republican tool. I’m shocked. Shockéd, I tell you. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391/24 "2017-03-31T15:06:52Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > He’s pissed off the judiciary. A judge could say he can’t do that. Unfortunately, he probably can. And wouldn’t hesitate for a moment. And he’d find a way to make a buck off it, maybe sell limited edition reproductions of it to his cultists. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391/25 "2017-03-31T15:11:05Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Things are going faster than I thought just a few weeks ago. I think he wants to be the first to ask for immunity, since the first guy gets the best deal. Of course he won’t get it unless it leads to a bigger fish, and it seems there is only one fish bigger than he. So my dreams of prison time for The Donald are still alive. I don’t think we should get our hopes up, there. Personally, I’d bet that Trump was very much the “useful idiot”, manipulated by the Russian government through direct contacts with the campaign. But we’ll never have tape of Putin and Trump directly talking blackmail and collusion. Besides, there are plenty of other “bigger fish” besides our dear Republican president. Manafort isn’t a big player in the current Trump administration, but given all the public information we’ve seen so far, he’s probably deeply intertwined with Russian organized crime, money laundering, dictators, etc. The FBI might happily give immunity for Flynn’s testimony on Manafort’s communications and offshore accounts, for example. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391/26 "2017-03-31T15:28:18Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Things are going faster than I thought just a few weeks ago. I think he wants to be the first to ask for immunity, since the first guy gets the best deal. Of course he won’t get it unless it leads to a bigger fish, and it seems there is only one fish bigger than he. So my dreams of prison time for The Donald are still alive. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > For the life of me, I can’t imagine Trump not pardoning himself. I think the only way Trump ends up in prison is if Congress flips in 2018, or the GOP decides that Trump is enough of a liability that they vote to impeach. The former is unlikely; even if the House flips, the Senate is unlikely to flip enough to result in a two-thirds vote to convict. The GOP turning on Trump is more likely, but still not particularly likely, considering the behavior we’ve seen so far. Nobody on the GOP wants the black eye of having to impeach their own president, and many are afraid of getting voted out if they turn on Trump. Revelations from the Russia investigation could force their hand, if damaging enough. But it would take a lot. At this point, I could see the GOP making excuses for Trump even if there was incontrovertible evidence that he committed actual treason. As much as I want to see Trump go down, I sincerely doubt that it will be due to impeachment or resignation. I’ll be satisfied if he loses in 2020, but I’ve lost all confidence in the country’s electorate. They were stupid enough to elect him once, and I won’t be surprised if they do it again. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391/27 "2017-03-31T15:30:53Z")
Tweeteth Dolt 45: > [@](#): > > Mike Flynn should ask for immunity in that this is a witch hunt (excuse for big election loss), by media & Dems, of historic proportion! > > 7:04 AM - 31 Mar 2017 That would be a no. He wants immunity from federal prosecution, not from a media witch hunt. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391/28 "2017-03-31T15:34:35Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Tweeteth Dolt 45: > > That would be a no. He wants immunity from federal prosecution, not from a media witch hunt. Trump can’t decide whether to make Flynn a fall guy or hero. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391/29 "2017-03-31T15:36:24Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Then he’d hold the signed pardon up for the cameras and mug for them as if he was a first grader showing everyone the gold star on his schoolwork. [Ugh, the balls on this guy.](https://ibb.co/jC40MF) ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391/30 "2017-03-31T18:25:06Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > I think the only way Trump ends up in prison is if Congress flips in 2018, or the GOP decides that Trump is enough of a liability that they vote to impeach. The former is unlikely; even if the House flips, the Senate is unlikely to flip enough to result in a two-thirds vote to convict. > > The GOP turning on Trump is more likely, but still not particularly likely, considering the behavior we’ve seen so far. Nobody on the GOP wants the black eye of having to impeach their own president, and many are afraid of getting voted out if they turn on Trump. Revelations from the Russia investigation could force their hand, if damaging enough. But it would take a lot. At this point, I could see the GOP making excuses for Trump even if there was incontrovertible evidence that he committed actual treason. > > As much as I want to see Trump go down, I sincerely doubt that it will be due to impeachment or resignation. I’ll be satisfied if he loses in 2020, but I’ve lost all confidence in the country’s electorate. They were stupid enough to elect him once, and I won’t be surprised if they do it again. I think that with just a few more dominos falling the GOP would be more than happy to impeach his happy ass right now. He’s alienating the Freedom Caucus and he’s talking about working with Democrats (the horror). The Freedom Caucus is probably his bigger problem, but the Dems would have no problem going along with the impeachment I imagine. Throw in testimony from Flynn and Manafort (assuming Flynn’s testimony flips Manafort) and that’s the excuse they need to do it. Even if no one ever says directly that Trump himself colluded, if enough members of his campaign are tied to the Russians and their activities during the campaign, I think he’s gone. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391/31 "2017-03-31T19:40:06Z")
No way is the FBI building a federal case against Trump. Comey’s so deep in Trump’s pocket, he’s making Alanis Morissette jealous. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391/32 "2017-03-31T21:12:29Z")
Even Nixon didn’t try to pardon himself. He just got Ford to do it. The Votemaster is quite dubious about this story. The whitewash, I mean congressional, committee is certainly not interested in whatever dirt Flynn can throw as that would make their job only harder. Incidentally Trump can certainly pardon Flynn, although that is a double-edged sword as Flynn could no longer take the fifth. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391/33 "2017-03-31T22:43:26Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > No way is the FBI building a federal case against Trump. Comey’s so deep in Trump’s pocket, he’s making Alanis Morissette jealous. Then there at least appears to be quite a bit of panic in certain circles over absolutely nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391/34 "2017-03-31T22:55:16Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Then there at least appears to be quite a bit of panic in certain circles over absolutely nothing. Panic? I don’t see any panic. I, for one, find this breathless expectations game vastly amusing. It will be fun to watch the Fitzmass-like fizzle yet again. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391/35 "2017-03-31T23:52:21Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Then there at least appears to be quite a bit of panic in certain circles over absolutely nothing. They might be looking for a patsy or a fall guy. Someone without a lot of political power and who’s already been kicked out of Trump’s inner circle. Someone like, oh I dunno, Michael Flynn perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2017, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391/36 "2017-04-01T00:34:27Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Panic? I don’t see any panic. > > I, for one, find this breathless expectations game vastly amusing. It will be fun to watch the Fitzmass-like fizzle yet again. Can I just ask, was “Fitzmas” a formative moment for you in your youth? Because I remember Will Clark hitting a single up the middle in the 1989 NLCS to send the Giants to their first World Series in ages, but: (a) I know that it is an insignificant moment for 99.999999% of humanity and (b) I don’t bring it up on this board every ninth post I make. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2017, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391/37 "2017-04-01T00:51:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And if somebody tries to play games afterwards, the immunity can be withdrawn. What do you mean by this? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391/38 "2017-04-01T01:15:38Z")
Perhaps I am using incorrect terminology. My understanding is that the defendant has to reveal to the prosecution what testimony he will be giving as part of the immunity deal. This revealed testimony is itself covered by immunity even if the more general immunity deal isn’t made. So the prosecution can’t use this testimony as evidence against the defendant in the trial. This allows the prosecution to look over the testimony and decide if it’s worth an immunity deal while also protecting the defendant. But part of the deal is the defendant has to stick to his story. If the immunity deal is made he cannot give any testimony at the trial or enter other evidence that contradicts what he said in the prior testimony he gave to the prosecution. If the defendant does contradict his earlier testimony after the immunity deal is made, then the prosecution can revoke the immunity on that earlier testimony and present it as evidence. This prevents defendants from trying the kind of games TonySinclair described where a defendant could say something like _“I was just the driver. I was part of the robbery but I didn’t kill anybody. If you give me immunity I’ll testify against my partner because he was the guy that shot those witnesses and I saw it.”_ and get an immunity deal. And then at the trial turn around and say _“It was me. I’m the guy that killed them all. My partner is innocent. But you can’t convict me because I have immunity.”_ or even _“I was just the driver. I sat out in the car the whole time and didn’t see what happened inside.”_ If I’m incorrect, I’d welcome an explanation of what the actual procedure is. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2017, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391/39 "2017-04-01T01:45:01Z")
In the discussion of whether prosecutors would consider granting Flynn’s request we have to look at what case they have against him. At least publicly there seems to be a case under the Logan Act. Since there’s been exactly one indictment under that act, it was dropped before trial, and there are long standing concerns that the Act itself might fail a constitutional test it’s not a strong case. I’d be interested in one of the criminal lawyers commenting on possible challenges with respect to admissability of the incidental surveillance of a US citizen under a FISA warrant. That has implications for the strength of the case as well. Since there’s a full transcript both sides will also know just how much reasonable doubt might be able to be crafted out of the way statements were made. Unless there’s something big in the investigation that hasn’t been leaked, the prosecutors might not be playing a particularly strong hand to compel Flynn to take a deal for less than immunity. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2017, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391/40 "2017-04-01T04:26:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Perhaps I am using incorrect terminology. > > My understanding is that the defendant has to reveal to the prosecution what testimony he will be giving as part of the immunity deal. This revealed testimony is itself covered by immunity even if the more general immunity deal isn’t made. So the prosecution can’t use this testimony as evidence against the defendant in the trial. This allows the prosecution to look over the testimony and decide if it’s worth an immunity deal while also protecting the defendant. > > But part of the deal is the defendant has to stick to his story. If the immunity deal is made he cannot give any testimony at the trial or enter other evidence that contradicts what he said in the prior testimony he gave to the prosecution. > > If the defendant does contradict his earlier testimony after the immunity deal is made, then the prosecution can revoke the immunity on that earlier testimony and present it as evidence. > > This prevents defendants from trying the kind of games TonySinclair described where a defendant could say something like _“I was just the driver. I was part of the robbery but I didn’t kill anybody. If you give me immunity I’ll testify against my partner because he was the guy that shot those witnesses and I saw it.”_ and get an immunity deal. And then at the trial turn around and say _“It was me. I’m the guy that killed them all. My partner is innocent. But you can’t convict me because I have immunity.”_ or even _“I was just the driver. I sat out in the car the whole time and didn’t see what happened inside.”_ > > If I’m incorrect, I’d welcome an explanation of what the actual procedure is. Nope. You’re right on the money. I just didn’t know what the predicate for ‘games,’ was; I think I missed TonySinclair’s post. My bad. To add just a tiny point to your solid summary, typically the proffer – what you called the revealed testimony – is, as you say, granted use immunity. Once the immunity deal is made, the testimony is covered by use and derivative use immunity.The reason this is done is to ensure that if the government does not accept the proffer, perhaps seeing that the information is not as valuable as they had hoped, and they proceed to prosecute, they would have a huge burden if they had to show that all the evidence they used was not in any way derived from the proffer. So they avoid that sinkhole by not granting derivative use immunity up front. But you hit the nail on the head: the agreements for immunity typically require the witness to cooperate fully and testify both truthfully and consistent with his proffer. If he doesn’t, the government is fully entitled to withdraw the immunity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynn-reportedly-agrees-to-cooperate-with-fbi-on-russia-ties-in-exchange-for-immunity/783391.md?page=3)