# Michael Flynn's Shining City on the Hill - For Christians Only **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 15, 2021, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397 "2021-11-15T16:09:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/41 "2021-11-17T16:06:44Z")
If this goes on… ---
**Author:** ![Ranch\_Dip](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranch_dip/32/5238_2.png) [@Ranch\_Dip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranch_Dip)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2021, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/42 "2021-11-17T20:46:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The One Religion he wants isn’t Christianity. That would mean following that crazy Jesus hippie. What he wants is Trumpism. We need a “Like” button. ---
**Author:** ![Temporary\_Name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Temporary\_Name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Temporary_Name)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/43 "2021-11-30T18:17:47Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This goes back to the bigger topic, which is that there have always been many **Christians who can’t tell the difference between forcing someone to put up the external appearance of something, and genuine internal belief within**. > > You see this with a lot of Christian parenting - “force my kid to go to church, force my kid to read the Bible, force my kid to pray, force my kid to say this or do that and it will mean he’s a real Christian” - not understanding that it’s what’s inside that counts. > > People like Flynn, or other Christian theocratists, are just a bigger, political, version of that. If they can’t make America genuinely Christian, then they’ll at least force America to go through the motions of it. I always admire how you get to the heart of the matter. I seem to know the general idea but cannot express it at all! I have seen it used differently also. There are those who DO know the difference and do wish their kids would be sincere believers - - - - - but something is better than nothing. They will take empty but “proper” appearing gestures over nothing. In a like manner, all of these Political “Christians” might be thinking- “Well, they are not True Christians, but at least they are not having abortions and saying ‘Happy Holidays’ when obviously Jesus wants us to say ‘Merry Christmas’ like me and my family always has!” It is not that they cannot make the distinction between sincere and going through the motions-- it is that if they can’t get the primary goal they will settle for the secondary goal. Like a fake it until you make it strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/44 "2021-11-30T19:01:39Z")
Exactly. Performative virtue and belief. Which, if you follow Christianity, was not something He was big on at all, and will not score you any points in the hereafter. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/45 "2021-11-30T19:07:34Z")
> [@Temporary\_Name](#): > > There are those who DO know the difference and do wish their kids would be sincere believers - - - - - but something is better than nothing. But if you think/act in terms of Christianity even because of force, it’s going to mold your thinking. You might rebel, of course, but people are generally lazy and I think will adopt Christianity-lite as the path of least resistance. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/46 "2021-11-30T19:12:02Z")
> [@Temporary\_Name](#): > > It is not that they cannot make the distinction between sincere and going through the motions-- it is that if they can’t get the primary goal they will settle for the secondary goal. Like a fake it until you make it strategy. I’m going to niggle this a bit. They prefer true belief, but will take perfunctory adherence across the board as part of the long game. Because if the next generation grows up with everyone in social earshot conforming, they will take it as a given, even if their parents are just going through the motions. So, yeah, faking it until you make it - but with the eyes on controlling the future. Which is exactly what I think we’re all agreeing on, it’s not about Christianity (other than as an excuse and a ready made power base), it’s about control and power. ---
**Author:** ![Temporary\_Name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Temporary\_Name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Temporary_Name)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/47 "2021-11-30T20:30:59Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > But if you think/act in terms of Christianity even because of force, it’s going to mold your thinking. You might rebel, of course, but people are generally lazy and I think will adopt Christianity-lite as the path of least resistance. I agree One Hundred Percent with all three responses so far. We all like to phrase it slightly differently but we do all have the same point of view, at least as far as I can tell. But the quote above inspires me to tell this story on my own family. I had a great uncle who was pretty close to us despite living thousands of miles away. He was a “legitimate businessman” (and he was if you only looked at his one business) as a cover for his very low level crime efforts. (Ran numbers operations, floating card games, collected for bigger fish, and was eventually a very high volume slum lord.) He was a devout Roman Catholic as was the rest of the family, never missed the sacraments although he was hit and miss about hearing the readings and the homily. Even when he was older and had mobility problems he would have the priest come over and give him communion. As far as I could tell, he never saw one bit of hypocrisy between his lifestyle and career (as a guy who aspired to be in the same league as the characters in **Goodfellas** ), and his devotion to his religion. As a side note, his son adored him and aspired to be as like him as possible while remaining strictly legit (my father did those things so I would not have to do them, he gave me opportunities he never had). His daughter, or as she was treated- his chattel both told me the story of when their mother died how he paid for a whole restoration of the confessionals and some pews. VERY different stories! One was about the old man’s generosity and devotion to his family. The other about an old hypocrite who would have his mistresses sit in the front of the church so he could ogle them while sitting beside his wife paying a fortune for a brass plaque with his wife’s name on it to diminish his guilt for all the lies and infidelities over a lifetime. If the priest was a even a bit reluctant to come give him the sacrament – he was not the least bit shy about saying: “I paid for your whole damn confessional so you can run your forgiveness scam, the least you could do is find time to give me the body of Christ for my redemption!” If he had been drinking before the phone call, the profanity level might be elevated. Just one small example of how “religion” completely devoid of any Christian morality can talk itself into any thing. I had thought the rest of that contingency was buried with him. Alas, it is alive and doing quite well in the bosom of the Republican Party. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/48 "2021-11-30T20:37:54Z")
Heretic! ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/49 "2021-11-30T21:02:13Z")
This subject was discussed recently at _The American Conservative._ While there was some concern expressed about provoking strong reactions by mandating Christian beliefs, the consensus was indeed that seeing it through would simply wear down opposition over time. The Middle Ages were used as support for this argument. There was little support expressed, AFAICT, for simply allowing their fellow Americans to practice their individual beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![webwarrior](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/webwarrior/32/9529_2.png) [@webwarrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/webwarrior)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/50 "2021-11-30T21:17:03Z")
_Flynn argued that religion “is the foundation of this country,” which was “created as a Judeo-Christian country with the beautiful set of values and principles that we have.”_ ([wordandway.org](http://wordandway.org)) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/51 "2021-11-30T21:20:03Z")
Welcome to The Pit! ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/52 "2021-11-30T22:08:14Z")
Respectfully, (even if we don’t have to be in the pit), how does your argument for his motives (an argument which was pretty thoroughly debunked in a prior thread mind you), excuse his statement which is directly in contradiction to the establishment clause of the constitution, which he, as a member of the military had a sworn duty to uphold? He is free to follow his own faith, but to insist that we must as a nation have and hold a singular belief would be laughable if it wasn’t so dangerous to our governing body of laws and society. ETA - while I’m still being polite, your link doesn’t point to anything directly related to Flynn or your argument (which also isn’t really stated, just implied) , just a website. ---
**Author:** ![webwarrior](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/webwarrior/32/9529_2.png) [@webwarrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/webwarrior)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/53 "2021-11-30T22:36:54Z")
I didn’t argue anything. I went to the net and found a direct quote from General Flynn on the site linked, copied it and pasted it into a reply… The reason I thought it was appropriate was I noticed a consistent misrepresentation in this thread of what Mr. Flynn actually said. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/54 "2021-11-30T22:42:37Z")
> [@webwarrior](#): > > The reason I thought it was appropriate was I noticed a consistent misrepresentation in this thread of what Mr. Flynn actually said. He also specifically said the following (source: “[The Hill](https://thehill.com/homenews/media/581443-michael-flynn-says-of-the-us-we-have-to-have-one-religion)”): > [@](#): > > “If we are going to have one nation under God, which we must, we have to have one religion,” he said [while speaking on the “ReAwaken America” tour Saturday night](https://americanfaith.com/tv/?_ga=2.13811700.2111361818.1636852287-1174415385.1636852287). “One nation under God and one religion under God.” And, I’m pretty darned sure that the “one religion” he was talking about wasn’t Judaism, Islam, or anything other than Christianity. @webwarrior : as @ParallelLines noted in their reply to you, it’s good form to actually provide a link to the article or page within a website where you find a quote, rather than just to the home page for that site (which is what you provided). Don’t make those of us who want to see the context from which you pulled the quote go fishing for it. ---
**Author:** ![webwarrior](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/webwarrior/32/9529_2.png) [@webwarrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/webwarrior)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/55 "2021-11-30T23:13:02Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > _And, I’m pretty darned sure that the “one religion” he was talking about wasn’t Judaism, Islam, or anything other than Christianity._ To clarify, while you and your friends on this thread are _“pretty darned sure…he was talking about … Christianity”_ the quote I found on wordandway makes it clear that General Flynn was referring to the religion of the Judeo-Christian God of Abraham. In the OP, CNN got the ball rolling in typical fake news style by making the leap that Mr. Flynn was referring to Christianity. They cherry picked a quote and concluded, _Of course, to Flynn, that one religion is Christianity, adding, After all, of White evangelicals voted for Trump in the 2020 election, according to exit polls…_ Now you know the religion Gen. Flynn was referriing to. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/56 "2021-11-30T23:15:00Z")
> [@webwarrior](#): > > the quote I found on wordandway Could you _please_ share the link to the actual article on that website? Edit: also, “Judeo-Christian” is _not_ “one religion” (a portion of Flynn’s quote which you seem happy to ignore or handwave) It is two separate religions (at least!), with common roots. [The first section of the Wikipedia entry for “Judeo-Christian” says](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian) (and please note the last paragraph): > [@](#): > > The term **Judeo-Christian** is used to group [Christianity and Judaism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_Judaism) together, either in reference to [Christianity’s derivation from Judaism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_of_early_Christianity_and_Judaism), Christianity’s borrowing of [Jewish Scripture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Scripture) (the Hebrew Bible) to constitute the “[Old Testament](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Testament)” of the Christian Bible, or due to perceived parallels or commonalities in [Judaeo-Christian ethics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaeo-Christian_ethics) shared by the two religions, such as the 10 commandments. The [Jewish Tradition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Tradition) of [atonement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atonement) has been borrowed by Christians and [circumcision](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision) is a common Jewish tradition among [Evangelicals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicals).[[1]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian#cite_note-1)[[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian#cite_note-2) > > The term “Judæo Christian” first appeared in the 19th century as a word for Jewish converts to Christianity. The German term _“Judenchristlich”_ (“Jewish-Christian”) was used by [Friedrich Nietzsche](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche) to describe continuity between the Jewish and Christian world views. > > The term became widely used in the [United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) during the [Cold War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War) to suggest a unified American identity opposed to communism. Theologian and author [Arthur A. Cohen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_A._Cohen), in _The Myth of the Judeo-Christian Tradition_ , questioned the theological validity of the Judeo-Christian concept, suggesting that it was instead essentially an invention of American politics. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/57 "2021-11-30T23:20:55Z")
> [@webwarrior](#): > > To clarify, while you and your friends on this thread are _“pretty darned sure…he was talking about … Christianity”_ the quote I found on wordandway makes it clear that General Flynn was referring to the religion of the Judeo-Christian God of Abraham. One, while they are gathered into the ‘Abrahamic faiths’ I find that to be a dodge - after all, if that is the case, then he should have zero problems with a nation based on Sharia law, after all, that’s part of the Abrahamic faiths. Unless, of course, you mean that Islam doesn’t count as an Abrahamic faith? [https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/23/politics/kfile-michael-flynn-sharia/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/23/politics/kfile-michael-flynn-sharia/index.html) A quote of his, from the above article, given at ACT! in Dallas TX > “When you, in the state of Texas, you, in the state of Texas—your legislators, your state representatives, your state senators, there’s a bunch of them that would be willing to have Sharia law imposed in the state of Texas,” Fair use precludes me from quoting large chunks of the article, but I think it’s clear that he most emphatically does not include Islam as an Abrahamic faith, an assumption you seem to share, but one I’m not willing to let pass. So yes, he does mean Christianity, and he’ll let various sects of Jews (that are Republicans that is) have a (grudging?) pass as well. ---
**Author:** ![webwarrior](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/webwarrior/32/9529_2.png) [@webwarrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/webwarrior)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/58 "2021-12-01T00:00:04Z")
Allah is not Jehovah. [Is Allah the same as God?](https://amazingdiscoveries.org/blog/allah-god-jehovah/) You guys are making things way more complicated than they need to be. Welcome to CNN, Mr. Flynn. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/59 "2021-12-01T00:02:44Z")
> [@webwarrior](#): > > Allah is not Jehovah. > [Is Allah the same as God?](https://amazingdiscoveries.org/blog/allah-god-jehovah/) By the — uh, _reasoning_ — on that site, Christians presumably aren’t worshipping the same deity that Jews do, either. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/60 "2021-12-01T00:04:31Z")
> [@webwarrior](#): > > Allah is not Jehovah. Neither is Jesus, but that doesn’t stop you throwing around “Judeo-Christian” like it meant something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397.md?page=4)