# Michael Flynn's Shining City on the Hill - For Christians Only **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 15, 2021, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397 "2021-11-15T16:09:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/121 "2021-12-01T16:57:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why do you care so much about what a corrupt has-been says? More importantly, why should we? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/122 "2021-12-01T16:59:59Z")
> [@Pazu](#): > > > [@Folacin](#): > > > > Aren’t there large swathes of non-Catholic Christians who don’t consider themselves Protestants (I think maybe the Baptists actually fall into that sub-set)? > > Coptics, Russian Orthodox, and Greek Orthodox, among others, just off the top of my head… I think Mormons might also object to such a characterization. that said, I’m pretty sure that significant numbers of Protestants would also object the the characterization of Mormons (and Catholics) as “Christian.” ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/123 "2021-12-01T17:04:41Z")
> [@Pazu](#): > > Coptics, Russian Orthodox, and Greek Orthodox, among others, just off the top of my head In my world, those are lumped into Catholic. I think my brain was differentiating Protestant from Evangelical, but some quick searching shows that Evangelicals are considered (mostly) a subset of Protestant. I also think I read somewhere that Protestants cleaved off with Luther, and then other groups did their own splits and considered themselves non-Protestant (because they didn’t want to be associated with Luther). I’m sure that is just weirdness that I got stuck in my brain. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/124 "2021-12-01T17:06:03Z")
> [@Pazu](#): > > Coptics, Russian Orthodox, and Greek Orthodox, among others, just off the top of my head… Latter Day Saints too IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/125 "2021-12-01T17:08:37Z")
I think **webwarrior** is trying the various sect/factions dodge to get away from the fact that despite what he keeps trying to say Flynn did say what CNN (and others) reported him saying. Trying to define Abrahamic faiths his way only, and to lump their beliefs and practices together is just a bad-faith dodge. So again, back to WW - do you have any coherent support that MF is not advocating a state religion that is based on Christianity? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/126 "2021-12-01T17:10:07Z")
John Winthrop said that the Massachusetts colony would be a “city on a hill” - but that was a bad thing. It meant that the sins of the new colony would be visible to the world - not that the new colony would be a good example for the world. It’s a trifle annoying to see people misunderstand that. > _For we must consider that we shall be as a city upon a hill. The eyes of all people are upon us. So that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken, and so cause Him to withdraw His present help from us, we shall be made a story and a by-word through the world._ ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/127 "2021-12-01T18:00:21Z")
> [@webwarrior](#): > > I know exactly what he is talking about and exactly what he means. As do I. He means that he wants the USA to be a theocracy. I rather suspect that you do, too. That’s the _a_ hallmark of someone who hates America. Such people can fuck right off and start their theocracy somewhere else. I don’t even mind if y’all _call_ it the United States of America. You just can’t have ours. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/128 "2021-12-01T19:28:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > You just can’t have ours. You will not replace us! (I’ve been waiting for a good time to use that against maganuts.) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/129 "2021-12-01T21:57:38Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m a queer liberal atheist who believes in freedom of religion, democratic government, and a multi-racial, multi-ethnic society. You…you… you’re… queer? Damn, I have really got to get my gaydar fixed… _:::sounds of percussive maintenance :::_ Hey, you want to get together and trigger some Trumpists some time? ---
**Author:** ![Pazu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pazu/32/15522_2.png) [@Pazu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pazu)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/130 "2021-12-01T22:00:26Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > In my world, those are lumped into Catholic. In the Christian world, the Eastern Orthodox denominations at least were “de-lumped” as far back as the [Great Schism of 1054](https://www.nationalgeographic.org/thisday/jul16/great-schism/) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/131 "2021-12-01T22:16:38Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > > [@webwarrior](#): > > > > Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish. One nation, under God. > > Aren’t there large swathes of non-Catholic Christians who don’t consider themselves Protestants (I think maybe the Baptists actually fall into that sub-set)? > [@Pazu](#): > > Coptics, Russian Orthodox, and Greek Orthodox, among others, just off the top of my head… Don’t forget the Mormons. They’re off in their own little world. Or worlds. I think the men are all supposed to get their own planet as part of their afterlife deal, aren’t they? > [@DocCathode](#): > > I am aware that many American Christians are diehard supporters of Israel. This is not because they love or care about Jews. This is because in their eschatological view, Israel must exist and at least a majority of Jews must gather there before the Second Coming can happen. Yep, they want us to exist but they don’t want us to move next door, have our kids at the same school, or marry their children. It’s fine if we exist - over there. Where they don’t have to actually see/hear/smell us. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/132 "2021-12-01T22:38:39Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I am aware that many American Christians are diehard supporters of Israel. This is not because they love or care about Jews. This is because in their eschatological view, Israel must exist and at least a majority of Jews must gather there before the Second Coming can happen. I think that the eschatological motivation for supporting Israel is probably a quite small minority view among conservative Christians. Its a bit to obscure to be mainstream and if it were the primary motivation you would hear more pandering towards it. My view is that the unwavering support for Isreal is based primarily on Anti-Muslim sentiment. As I’ve posted before, a lot of Christians in America view Jews as honorary Christians who just happen to go Church on Saturday and call Christmas Hanukkah. They’re white (unless your a full fledged neo-Nazi), relatively well well off, are well integrated into American society and don’t rock the boat. By and large I think your average WASP would feel more comfortable in a Synagogue than in a southern black Baptist church. This sense that Jews are less “Other” than say Muslim’s, Hindus or Native American spirituality is the basis behind the "Jude-Christian ’ lumpage that although lacking in any theological basis, none the less feels right on a cultural level to many people. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/133 "2021-12-01T22:47:06Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > As I’ve posted before, a lot of Christians in America view Jews as honorary Christians who just happen to go Church on Saturday and call Christmas Hanukkah. They’re white (unless your a full fledged neo-Nazi), relatively well well off, are well integrated into American society and don’t rock the boat. By and large I think your average WASP would feel more comfortable in a Synagogue than in a southern black Baptist church. Flip side of this argument is the various groups (not Christian only by default of course) that _hate_ Jews for the exact seem reasons you mention. Because they’re ‘white’ (whatever that means), well off, and well integrated into society. The whole Zionist replacement violent idiots. But otherwise, yes, absolutely, the incredibly ignorant surface level similarities can make American Jews (that don’t have obvious tells such as the Haredi) easy to accept and ignore, especially given that it’s never been a large percentage of the population. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/134 "2021-12-01T22:51:16Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > My view is that the unwavering support for Isreal is based primarily on Anti-Muslim sentiment. The difference between the left and right is that the left thinks Israelis are a bunch of militaristic thugs who love killing Muslims, while the right thinks Israelis are a bunch of militaristic thugs who love killing Muslims, and approve of it. For some reason, the latter offend me even more than the former. I don’t want people like that thinking I’m like them. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/135 "2021-12-01T23:02:12Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > As I’ve posted before, a lot of Christians in America view Jews as honorary Christians who just happen to go Church on Saturday and call Christmas Hanukkah. They’re white (unless your a full fledged neo-Nazi), relatively well well off, are well integrated into American society and don’t rock the boat Well… most[ of them appear Caucasian. Some aren’t - the Jewish Federation in my area for many years had a CEO from (originally) Ethiopia. Not Caucasian. But still Jewish. But that’s confusing to a lot of the _goyim_, so maybe we won’t go down that path. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/136 "2021-12-01T23:10:57Z")
Back to the point of the thread, it’s Judeo- **Christian** (small Judeo) acceptance . . . as long as that Jew is a good Republican, and doesn’t stand out, live near you, or insist on having strange dress, hair, habits or the like. Back to the pre-webwarrior discussion where if you blend in or fake it, you’re good enough. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/137 "2021-12-01T23:24:12Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > … a lot of Christians in America view Jews as honorary Christians … > [@ParallelLines](#): > > The whole Zionist replacement violent idiots. It’s possible many MAGAts hold both views at the same time. American Jews are just potential Christians, but European Jews are the blood suckers with the space lasers. Meanwhile, Israeli Jews are the badasses who hate Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/138 "2021-12-01T23:59:22Z")
Am I the only one who thinks Flynn has no actual plans to do any of this? He’s a grifter, provoking us so that we’ll provoke the rubes so that the rubes will open their hearts and wallets to him. He’s like Trump and most Trump lackeys… hateful, lazy, and deeply stupid. He knows that making America a Christian theocracy is far, far beyond the reach of a simple con-man. But he also knows that this is a very enticing idea for a certain segment of the public, and that segment will reliably keep feathering his nest if he keeps stoking them. That’s why my policy on guys like this is simply not to feed the troll. Keep a weather eye on him, but don’t feed him. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2021, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/139 "2021-12-02T00:12:07Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Am I the only one who thinks Flynn has no actual plans to do any of this? He’s a grifter, provoking us so that we’ll provoke the rubes so that the rubes will open their hearts and wallets to him. It’s not Flynn specifically that worries me, it’s that there’s such a large audience for this particular grift. Flynn’s keeping them primed and agitated, so that when someone with a plan does show up, they’re ready to fall in line behind him. But I’m not particularly worried about Michael Flynn himself being named Holy President of the United Christian States of America. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2021, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397/140 "2021-12-02T00:14:45Z")
We’ve actually largely concluded before _ **webwarrior** _ showed up that it’s a power/money/influence grab, appealing to nominal Christians because they’re the majority and feeling threatened in their (up until now) unthinking cultural dominance. A ready-made power and grift base. Although we also believe that much of the Religious Right is absolutely happy to continue (by any means possible) to enforce said cultural dominance until it is either de facto or de jure law of the land. WW seems to think he understands what MF is saying, and that it’s all both correct and legitimate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-flynns-shining-city-on-the-hill-for-christians-only/954397.md?page=8)