# Michael Jackson: Pedo or hellno? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 2, 2013, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215 "2013-10-02T21:51:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215/41 "2013-10-03T13:38:06Z")
There’s no reason his regressive personality couldn’t also mean he was a child molester. If he had the mind of a child but the hormones of an adult, combined with the fixation on young boys, he could very well have molested the children. And it wouldn’t matter whether he was an actual pedophile or not. (A large portion–if not a majority–of child molesters are not pedophiles.) That said, if he did, you’d expect it to be something he did with all the children in his bed, and at least Caulkin says that he was never molested. Then again, maybe it was more a grooming thing for allowing him to be alone with the children later. I find the fact that he thwarted the rules of society to be less rather than more indicative that he was a molester. If he usually acted normally, then this would be an aberration. But I think he came off as the type of person who thought that he didn’t have to listen to societal norms. You may see him getting in a lot of legal trouble. I think he saw it as if he survived a lot of legal trouble. The fact that he continued doing what he was doing does not seem so suspect if he thought the trial vindicated him. I don’t think you can say one way or the other on that. I believe that he was unhealthily fixated on young boys. But I do not buy that that, in and of itself, does anyone any harm. And I do not hold Jackson responsible for the suspicions of others that it was sexual. Though, again, it might have actually been sexual. All I know is that most pedophiles are not nearly as weird as Jackson, and I find any indication that his weirdness is proof of his guilt to be very odd and even somewhat troubling, as I know quite a lot of good, weird people. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215/42 "2013-10-03T13:39:43Z")
Reminds me of Humbert Humbert’s justification for the rape/carnal knowledge of his step daughter. In other words, pure fiction twisted into a sick justification. I don’t know if he ever touched a kid. But he is most definitely a pedophile, in the sense that he is attracted to prepubescent boys. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215/43 "2013-10-03T14:04:55Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > And what parent with an ounce of brains allows their child to go off with a strange man alone? Depends on how much money he’s got. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215/44 "2013-10-03T16:08:35Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > There’s no reason his regressive personality couldn’t also mean he was a child molester. The fact that he was emotionally eight years old is the reason why I think he was a child molester. Emotional immaturity is a widely held hypothesis for pedophilia ([cite](http://www.jaapl.org/content/13/1/17.full.pdf) - pdf). > [@](#): > > Pedophiles describe themselves as introverted, shy, sensitive, and depressed. Objective personality test results tend to confirm these subjective assessments, with the addition traits of emotional immaturity and a fear of being able to function in mature adult heterosexual relationships. [Cite](http://psychology.jrank.org/pages/476/Pedophilia.html#ixzz2gfx13dci). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215/45 "2013-10-03T17:03:27Z")
Exactly right. Pedophiles are emotionally regressed people who see themselves as childlike. That’s why they’re attracted to children. Combine a child-like emotional state and an adult’s physical sexual maturity, and what do you think is going to happen? Pedophile of course is not the same thing as child molester. You can be sexually attracted to children without raping them, I am sexually attracted to adult women but I’ve never raped an adult woman, even when I was really horny and she was really hot. But “He’s innocent and like a child” is not exactly evidence that he wasn’t a pedophile. Real children don’t have adult bodies with adult sexual function. Michael Jackson did. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215/46 "2013-10-03T17:50:13Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Real children don’t have adult bodies with adult sexual function. Michael Jackson did. Unless he didn’t. See post #2. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215/47 "2013-10-03T18:23:48Z")
he liked to play games with children. ‘got your nose’ was his most favorite. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215/48 "2013-10-03T18:29:50Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > (A large portion–if not a majority–of child molesters are not pedophiles.)… Could you explain this, or link to the wiki’s or some such? I know there’s likely some fine-line psycho-babble involved which make it technically true, but it feels like “not all alcoholics are addicts”. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215/49 "2013-10-03T18:38:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Depends on how much money he’s got. Ugh, you’re right. I should have said “what parent with an ounce of MORALITY…”. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215/50 "2013-10-03T18:57:40Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Could you explain this, or link to the wiki’s or some such? I know there’s likely some fine-line psycho-babble involved which make it technically true, but it feels like “not all alcoholics are addicts”. Seems a little semantically debatable, but I’ll WAG it has something to do with [ephebophilia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia). ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215/51 "2013-10-03T19:00:52Z")
Ron White sums up my thoughts, discussing the fact that a life-size doll of a Boy Scout was found in Jackson’s home: > [@](#): > > If somebody found a life-size doll of a woman in my room, everyone would assume that I was fuckin’ it. > > And they’d be right. Maybe that’s got nothing to do with anything, but I sure wouldn’t have let my kids go over to Michael Jackson’s house. If I had any. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215/52 "2013-10-03T19:56:07Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Could you explain this, or link to the wiki’s or some such? I know there’s likely some fine-line psycho-babble involved which make it technically true, but it feels like “not all alcoholics are addicts”. You can have a sexual attraction to prepubescent children, but not have sex with prepubescent children. Like I mentioned earlier, I have a sexual attraction to adult women, but I’ve never raped an adult woman. If for some reason I wasn’t ever able to have consensual sex with an adult woman, I still wouldn’t rape one. Pedophiles are attracted to children, but can never have consensual sex with them. That means any sex between a pedophile and a child would be rape. It’s possible for pedophiles to decide to not rape children, even if they have the desire to rape children they still don’t have to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215/53 "2013-10-03T20:10:53Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > You can have a sexual attraction to prepubescent children, but not have sex with prepubescent children. Like I mentioned earlier, I have a sexual attraction to adult women, but I’ve never raped an adult woman. > > If for some reason I wasn’t ever able to have consensual sex with an adult woman, I still wouldn’t rape one. Pedophiles are attracted to children, but can never have consensual sex with them. That means any sex between a pedophile and a child would be rape. It’s possible for pedophiles to decide to not rape children, even if they have the desire to rape children they still don’t have to do it. WADR, I think you have answered the wrong question. It was not “most pedophiles are not child molesters”. it was [QUOTE=BigT] A large portion–if not a majority–of child molesters are not pedophiles. [/quote] I understand that a pedophile would want to have sex with a prepubescent child, but thru moral effort would stop himself from doing so. The question is why someone who is not a pedophile, and was not sexually attracted to prepubescent children, would nonetheless molest one. As mentioned, I suspect it has to do with the difference between sex with an eight year old vs. sex with a thirteen year old. Both are “sex with a minor”, legally, but calling them both “child molesting” is a little misleading. IMO. Not to excuse sex with thirteen year olds, but it is not quite the same thing. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215/54 "2013-10-03T20:21:49Z")
I think it’s obvious Michael Jackson had sexual feelings for children. Whether he indulged them is anyone’s guess. I guess this should be called the [Lewis Carroll](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1142/was-lewis-carroll-a-perv) syndrome. In one of his books, FBI agent John Douglas presents a list of acceptable activities for pedophiles. It does including using stuffed animals and life sized dolls as masturbation aids. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215/55 "2013-10-03T20:24:15Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I think it’s obvious Michael Jackson had sexual feelings for children. Whether he indulged them is anyone’s guess. I guess this should be called the [Lewis Carroll](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1142/was-lewis-carroll-a-perv) syndrome. Really, though, despite his taste for photographing little girls in the nude (all perfectly innocent by Victorian standards, that), there was nothing about Lewis Carroll’s character that would make a responsible parent hesitate to trust him as a babysitter. (For a little girl, that is. I wouldn’t put him to watch a boy, Carroll **hated** little boys.) ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215/56 "2013-10-03T22:59:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > WADR, I think you have answered the wrong question. Yep, sorry about that. Not all pedophiles are child molesters is not the same thing as not all child molesters are pedophiles. If we replace “child molester” with “statutory rapist” then the picture gets clearer. Many people who commit statutory rape aren’t pedophiles, because the rape victim was post-pubescent. I have no idea if this fraction is greater than 50%, but it sounds plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215/57 "2013-10-04T01:52:16Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Classy thread. So that makes thread-shitting OK? ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215/58 "2013-10-04T09:56:07Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Oh for crying out loud. You think you know more about what actually happened then the judge and jury who sat through a five month [MJ’s tria](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Michael_Jackson) Yawn. And, for crying out loud, I wish people would stop blaming poor OJ for murdering his ex-wife when the \*WHOLE LEGAL SYSTEM AND CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES SAID HE WAS INNOCENT. \* ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215/59 "2013-10-04T10:01:02Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > he liked to play games with children. ‘got your nose’ was his most favorite. I think that what he grabbed their noses with is what got him into trouble. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215/60 "2013-10-04T10:07:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Because bats are crazy, I suppose, or at least they appear so to humans, not flying with steady direction like a bird but flitting and tumbling all over the place, and sleeping hanging by their toes from cave-roofs. Hold on here; aren’t getting bats caught in your hair supposed to drive you crazy? Then, methinks that the ‘-shit’ addendum is like the ‘-ass’ in ‘ugly-ass’. Mystery solved, per hh. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-pedo-or-hellno/670215.md?page=4)