# Michael Jackson Verdict Reached!!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [June 13, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130 "2005-06-13T19:29:07Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 13
### Author:  [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2005, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/241 "2005-06-14T08:42:13Z")
> [@Large Marge](#):
>
> Am I the only who got the Friends reference?
I never watched it. What was the reference?
---
### Author:  [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2005, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/242 "2005-06-14T10:13:55Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#):
>
> I never watched it. What was the reference?
In post #174, **Inkleberry** rearranged **Guinastasia** ’s earlier post of:
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> He’s almost flat broke, his career is a joke, everyone think he got away with molestation, etc.
to ask the question:
> [@Inkleberry](#):
>
> So…his job’s joke, he’s broke, and his love life’s DOA?
which is a reference to the _Friends_ theme song (lyrics [here](http://www.culttelly.co.uk/lyrics/friends.html)). I was going to give **Inkleberry** props for the reference if **Large Marge** hadn’t, but I came late to the thread. Anyway, cute reference, **Inkleberry**!
BTW, **Rilchiam** , I just watched the [Triumph TICD](http://gorillamask.net/triumphjacko.shtml) clip for which you provided the link, and it’s one of the funniest things I’ve seen in ages. I haven’t watched Conan O’Brien in years, but Triumph is a work of genius.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2005, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/243 "2005-06-14T10:32:20Z")
> [@Large Marge](#):
>
> I did wonder about that, and decided that the prosecution probably was afraid of what it would find - something that might prove Jackson _is_ a loon and possibly _not_ responsible for his actions. I’m just speculating, but whatever the shrink would have found would have been fair game. They probably didn’t want to take the chance.
> [SUB]Am I the only who got the Friends reference?[/sub]
I didn’t get it because I never watch _Friends_.
If a shrink HAD found him incompetant to stand trial, most likely the DA would have been happy to offer him a deal to be incarcerated in a mental institution. At least they’d get to have him locked up and away from potential victims.
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### Author:  [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2005, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/244 "2005-06-14T11:05:45Z")
I had a little “Yahoo” moment, this morning, when the verdict was read. I am glad he was found not guilty (and I am NO MJ fan). How any jury could have found him guilty without doubt…based on the evidence of this trial, is beyond me.
He is guilty of being VERY weird, of being overly emotional and of speaking before he engages brain.
He is sooo removed from society that he can’t see why people raise eyebrows at what he openly admits but that does not make him guilty.
Actual abusers are so riddled with guilt they will be telling others why they can’t fart in public NOT trying to explain why sleeping with kids means sleeping with kids not fucking kids.
MJ is weird (or in my slang…fucked in the head) EVERYONE knows that. Weird and stupid are not the same thing though. Back in the day he wrote songs that were not written by a stupid person. He became a very rich man based on his talent and his savvy investments ( he owns a shitload of the Beatles music that they DON’T), not stupidity. Yes he left the planet of the normal years ago BUT that is why I think he was innocent.
MJ never hid the fact he liked to sleep with kids, I won’t be sending my kid for a sleepover but he was perfectly open about his oddness. I wouldn’t let my son stay there not because I believe he is guilty but because MJ has been associated with accusations for 10 plus years. That fact alone makes me doubt the mothers integrity.
Is there a weirder celebrity? An easier touch?
I think the mum deserves jail time, whatever MJ may or maynot have done. If he really was guilty, she pimped her son. If he is innocent she used her son. Either way she is SCUM.
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### Author:  [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2005, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/245 "2005-06-14T11:21:08Z")
He has repeatedly placed himself at the scene, admitting that he likes to sleep with kids. **The man is 47 years old**.
Yes, he’s weird. He can’t see why his behavior raises eyebrows because he is in his own little world. He has created a lot of smoke, and where there is smoke, there is usually fire.
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### Author:  [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2005, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/246 "2005-06-14T11:47:00Z")
> [@GaWd](#):
>
> Except that he’s not a “known pedophile”. Firstly-pedophiles are attracted to children, not prepubescent children. There’s a huge gulf between the 2 age groups to a perv. THe more technical term escapes me at the moment.
No definition of pedophilia anywhere (that I can find) indicates that pedophiles are only attracted to adolescent children, and several indicate the opposite.
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### Author:  [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2005, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/247 "2005-06-14T11:57:22Z")
Yeah, he’s got it backward. When a distinction is made, a pedophile is attracted to pre-pubescent children, usually of either sex; an ephebophile is related to pubescent children, usually of one or the other sex.
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### Author:  [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2005, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/248 "2005-06-14T11:58:40Z")
No, when it comes to child molesters there is usually a distinct lack of smoke. Think Priests, Boy Scout leaders or [this fuck](http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3280863a1861,00.html)
MJ is a weird weird bloke but a kiddy fiddler? If he is, then he is the stupidest pedo alive.
He admitted to his VERY ODD liking of sharing his bed many times…very publicy.
Perhaps I should now admit that I am 38 yrs old and scared of the dark. I sleep with the tv on all night cause it means the room is less dark.
Unusual? Yes. Being different from the usual is not a crime.
MJ is an odd, odd little man, that doesn’t make him a pedo.
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### Author:  [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2005, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/249 "2005-06-14T12:39:50Z")
Michael Jackson, now that you’ve been found “not guilty” what are you going to do? I’m going to Disney World.
Let’s face facts: Any adult who admits to sharing a bed with a child is crossing an ethical line. That’s just too weird.
I’m going to start an office pool on how long before Jackson’s NEXT trial.
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### Author:  [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2005, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/250 "2005-06-14T12:49:40Z")
The next trial started by moneygrubbers?
Shit that could be tomorrow.
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### Author:  [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2005, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/251 "2005-06-14T12:55:58Z")
I have nothing to add to this circus, other than;
[Sod off Uri.](http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15628682%26method=full%26siteid=89488%26headline=i%2dstarted%2dall%2dthis%2d%2dthank%2dgod%2dthat%2dthe%2dnightmare%2dis%2dfinally%2dover-name_page.html) You’ve been remarkably quiet about all this of late, but as soon as you see the wind blowing your way, you’re out from under your rock in a shot to soak up that media attention.
And [talking of STUPID ideas](http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/archives/2005/06/14/jackson_at_live_8.html). Yeah, Jackson at Live8. That’s going to put a lot of attention on the poor nations of the world. That’s really what everyone is going to be talking about. :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2005, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/252 "2005-06-14T12:57:57Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#):
>
> The next trial started by moneygrubbers?
>
> Shit that could be tomorrow.
And the next 47 year old freak that thinks it’s ok to get into bed with 12 year old boys to get off because his accusers are hard to believe and unlikeable?
Happening in your town, probably right now.
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### Author:  [@furlibusea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furlibusea)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2005, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/253 "2005-06-14T13:03:12Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*Guinastasia \*\*
> Oh please. He fits the profile of a molestor TO A TEE. Child erotica (that’s just subtle enough NOT to be illegal). Always hanging around boys. Not girls, not even children, BOYS. And most of them are the same age and look the same.
You have posted that before, but I am reminded of something my father\* used to say. “Psycology classes use the same tests every year, they just change the answers.”
I find I am angry at many of my fellow countrymen. This is the United States of America. We do not get to convict someone because we “know” he is guilty. Not if we think he is a child molester, and not if we think he is a terrorist. The prosecution has to prove the case. It may not be perfect but there is no better system. This procecutor got a lot of breaks. Jackson pissed off the judge more than once. The judge allowed a bunch of evidence that I was pretty sure aught to be inadmissable, and still any court watcher out there says he did a lousy job. IMO he wanted Jackson as his career maker, he was sloppy and loose with the taxpayer money, and it is on his head if a child molester is loose.
I have posted before. MJ is too easy. Monsters who hurt children very seldom look odd. Maybe because most people have the sense not to let their children go off with someone who looks like he is a nutcase. I still think win or lose this was a horrid case for those who want to protect children.
I can’t find the thread, but there was a case here where a poster told someone here on the board that there was no way the person she thought was abusing a child was doing so, because he was a fine upstanding member of the community, and wealthy people didn’t do that kind of thing because he had too much to lose. MJ just proves those preconcieved ideas for those that think that way. Oh no we only have to look for those we can see are freeks.
This all as one who was abused, see \* above.
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### Author:  [@PETERFI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PETERFI)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2005, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/254 "2005-06-14T13:04:40Z")
> [@brickbacon](#):
>
> No, he probably didn’t do it… this time. Who knows about the other cases.
>
> Good verdict. Justice was done.
I hardly know what to say about this story, but once I started typing it was so long that I moved it off thread to here:
[My Extended Comments](http://thepeterfiles.blogspot.com/2005/06/jackson-found-not-guilty-on-all-counts.html)
But as a long time fan of Jackson’s music and performance, I really didn;t want him to be guilty. But like most people, I have some lost confidence in these massive celebrity trials, except that I believe that this jury really did try to do their best with what they were offered.
For what its worth, I think that Jackson really believes that what he did was OK. Maybe what really was going on was that he was regressing at these pajama parties to acting like he was age 5 or 6 to escape the nastiness of his current life. Look who he invited over, cancer patients, sick kids, other people who might want to play let’s pretend and forget about their problems to and cut him some slack about acting like a juvenile.
Was this a good thing for the kids as long as no molestation occured? Hard to say. Certainly wierd to see an adult regressing to childlike behavior. Then again, it might be funny and chase those naughty blues away. Certainly it was not healthy behavior for Jackson.
Could he really be that naive? Other pop stars and celebrities have said and done some pretty stupid things.
CF: “Does Chicken of the Sea have chicken in it?” The entire run of _The Simple Life_. “It depends on what the meaning of is is.” “There are definately weapons of mass destruction in Iraq”. “Sure I can spell Potatoe” Man that conceierge is making me mad, think I’ll show HIM a thing or two.
Fill in your own gaffe here. I can also see with disloyal staff why he might not want cameras around showing him behaving like a child.
So, I hope he didn’t do it. That’s what this jury said and I’m going to go along with them, for now. But I don’t think any parents anywhere will be having their kids stay overnight at Jacko’s house will they? Oh, right, see the CF above. Of course the will. But will Jackson be smart enough to make sure it is all on tape for his defense? CF.
In the mean time, if he is the kind of person who has to do this sort of thing he won’t be able to stop and he will be caught and tried again. But I hope not. Its hard to resolve the image of the happy MJ of the Jackson 5 and Rockin Robin with the figure shown today being exonerated in court, but I’d like to think that there’s a shred of that person left.
Peter, The Peter Files
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### Author:  [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2005, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/255 "2005-06-14T13:28:27Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#):
>
> Many pedophiles will use adult pornography as part of the process of grooming their victims. There was a porno mag in this case that had both Jackson’s and the victim’s fingerprints on it.
There was porn in my household that had both my father’s and my fingerprints on it. That doesn’t prove anything except that both people touched the magazine. It means nothing.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2005, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/256 "2005-06-14T13:43:56Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#):
>
> And [talking of STUPID ideas](http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/archives/2005/06/14/jackson_at_live_8.html). Yeah, Jackson at Live8. That’s going to put a lot of attention on the poor nations of the world. That’s really what everyone is going to be talking about. :rolleyes:
The link I made a while back goes into more detail. They’ve told him no repeatedly, and he won’t listen.
Look, if the jury felt there was no reasonable doubt, that’s fine. However, their actions now don’t fill me with confidence-“Oh, we want to be anonymous and get back to our lives, so we’re on Good Morning America!” Or Juror 5’s remarks about the mother, accompanied by a wink and a grin. As if to say, “Well, she snapped her fingers, so I fixed her wagon!”
One juror said he did feel Jacko was a pervert and probably a molestor, but there were too many inconsistencies to find him guilty. Okay, that’s fine.
I admit I probably could not have served on the jury-yes I have bias. So sue me. I did not feel there was reasonable doubt-doubt yes, but not reasonable, but apparently the jury felt otherwise.
(And no, it’s not just because, “oh my god, Jackson is so WEIRD he has to be a pervert!” No, after reading the Smoking Gun files on the Chandler case, I just could not believe he was innocent. There’s way too much smoke for there not to be a fire.)
YMMV
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### Author:  [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/257 "2005-06-14T14:05:23Z")
> [@The Scrivener](#):
>
> Then I was wrong when I referred to his having “child porn photo books” – at least with respect to using the plural. OTOH, who the hell would buy a book like “The Boy” unless he was keenly interested in such photos?
Why couldn’t he be interested in them for the sake of photography itself? For the beauty that can be captured in a photograph? It was not considered porn according to the legal definition!
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### Author:  [@Arwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arwin)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/258 "2005-06-14T14:15:33Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> There’s way too much smoke for there not to be a fire.
That old saying has lost all of its meaning in the age of [smoke machines](http://chemistry.about.com/library/weekly/aa010603c.htm).
---
### Author:  [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2005, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/259 "2005-06-14T15:03:54Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> One member of the jury was bitching about the mother snapping her fingers. “Don’t you snap your fingers at me, lady.” Apparently the one with the book deal.
>
> Stupid hag, you don’t base your choice on THAT.
>
> Either way, it comforts me at least that it ain’t over for PedoPan. He’s almost flat broke, his career is a joke, everyone think he got away with molestation, etc. I’ll bet months from now, we’ll hear that Mesereau is suing because Pedo didn’t pay his legal fees.
>
> Did you hear how he’s trying to get to perform on Live8, no matter how many times they tell him to get lost?
My understanding is that he’s cash poor but asset rich. He’s got the Beatles catalog that is worth TONS more than it was when he bought it. He has his own catalog, he has the ranch and other assets. Yes, he’ll have to sell some stuff, but he’s nowhere near flat broke.
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### Author:  [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2005, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/260 "2005-06-14T15:12:25Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> The link I made a while back goes into more detail. They’ve told him no repeatedly, and he won’t listen.
That story is probably bullshit. [This](http://uk.news.yahoo.com/050614/140/fl3md.html) link has commentary from the organizer. He says the following:
> [@](#):
>
> Interviewed on radio station Capital FM, Goldsmith said: “Obviously we’d consider it.”
>
> He added: “Whether it’s appropriate or not is another issue, whether he’s in a fit state to work is another issue, whether he can work is another issue and whether he can work live is another issue.”
Nothing about Jackson badgering him to perform. In fact, it seems likely that he may make an appearance.
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