# Michael Jackson Verdict Reached!!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [June 13, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130 "2005-06-13T19:29:07Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 7
### Author:  [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/121 "2005-06-13T21:31:46Z")
> [@KGS](#):
>
> I’d like to hear from each of you how you developed your psychic abilities to know exactly what happened. Or maybe you just believe we should abandon our whole justice system and convict people based solely on the lunatic ravings of a crazy, con artist woman?
It’s pretty hard to take the innocent-until-proven-guilty high road when you rapidly degenerate into unproven accusations and name-calling. In any case, the legel precedent of “innocent until proven guilty” doesn’t mean that a person is ACTUALLY innocent until convicted of a crime. Just that jurors PRESUME innocence until the person is proven guilty. Non jurors can presume whatever they want.
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### Author:  [@BrattiAtti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrattiAtti)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/122 "2005-06-13T21:32:00Z")
> [@andygirl](#):
>
> Well I for one am glad that this verdic will conclusively prove in everyone’s minds that Jackson is not a child molestor.
Erm, pardon me for a second here, but I don’t understand how you can think that “everyone” will change their minds just because a verdict came in. I still believe OJ’s guilty; getting a “not guilty” there just meant to me that 12 people were swayed by the defense, not that the defendant didn’t do the crime.
Anywho, that being said, I don’t know about MJ. I kind of sit on the fence. I wasn’t surprised with the first few verdicts: he’s a celebrity and I don’t think the jury wanted to “disappoint” him or whatever. What surprised me was that he didn’t get convicted for the misdemeanor counts of serving alcohol to a minor. I thought those ones would come out guilty. (I don’t know why; just had a feeling.) I think he has psychological problems and intense therapy would help him more than a prison sentence would have “helped”. I do think he has behaved extremely inappropriately with some young men, but I also think that he thought that was not an unreasonable thing to do.
On a side note, I had a dream about two weeks ago about making this exact post. I’m giiiifted! 😉
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### Author:  [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/123 "2005-06-13T21:32:13Z")
Damn messy thing, this jury system.
Me thinks he’s guilty of doing this at some point, but I’ll respect that 12 people found him not guilty in this case.
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### Author:  [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/124 "2005-06-13T21:33:00Z")
Bah, this whole “money bought the verdict” thing is already getting annoying.
Did you guys not watch the case? The prosecution case was WEAK. Virtually all analysts agree on that. There was an element of reasonable doubt and, in America, that means you cannot convict.
Did he really do it? Dunno. Should he have been found guilty? Maybe. Should he have been found guilty based on the actual case? Hell no.
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### Author:  [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/125 "2005-06-13T21:33:56Z")
Years later, long after this is all over, a thread like this might be kept calm enough for **MPSIMS** , but right now–as evidenced by a lot of posts already–it’s nothing but high octane **Pit** fuel.
Sorry, **Fear Itself** , I hope you weren’t holding on to this as your best of best **MPSIMS** threads. 😉
- SkipMagic Jackson (P.Y.T. - Pittable Young Thing)
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### Author:  [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/126 "2005-06-13T21:35:03Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#):
>
> The next kid MJ molests–and there will be more–will have to listen to him whisper if he cries, “Nobody will believe you…you know that now…nobody will ever believe you.” And they’ll be right.
You’re making ME cry.
Board rules forbid me from telling how I REALLY feel right now.
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### Author:  [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/127 "2005-06-13T21:35:24Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#):
>
> One crazy woman? How about Jay Leno and the other celebs who said she never asked for money?
How about them? Jay Leno told the police that he thought they were digging for money, but and testified that he believed that the kid was being coached on what to say. Chris Tucker called the police because he figured he was being conned, and testified to that effect.
The family already got a settlement from J.C. Penny in a bizarre case in which which sexual abuse by several security guards was alleged. The whole thing stunk to high heaven.
The dissonance that you are experiencing is because you are only measuring the verdict against your own preconceptions, not the _actual evidence presented to the jury._
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### Author:  [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/128 "2005-06-13T21:36:11Z")
I think most people were convinced of MJ’s pedophilia years ago after he unwisely allowed himself to be interviewed for British television and frankly discussed his predilictions. There was, for all the strikes against some of the witnesses, a fair amount of eyewitness testimony of pedophile behavior; there’s also the possession of “artistic” child nude photo books, etc. It doesn’t have to go so far as “fucking little boys”; just offering access to child porn to a kid should suffice for prosecutorial purposes.
A correction: some of the charges bore different standards of proof for a guilty verdict. The less serious charges didn’t require “guilt beyond a reasonable doubt,” but merely “a preponderance” (i.e., 51% likelihood) of guilt. Or so the jury was instructed going into deliberations, as they were saying on MSNBC… One of their experts was explaining that he thought that the jury might have difficulty understanding that distinction as it applied to the various charges throughout their deliberations.
I’m still flabbergasted. Even some of the experts who were saying that a lot of acquittals were likely still believed he’d be found guilty on at least one of the minor charges (easiest conviction on one of the serving-alcohol-to-a-minor ones).
I’m still flabbergasted.
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### Author:  [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/129 "2005-06-13T21:37:50Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> Oh please. [He fits the profile of a molestor TO A TEE.](http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/pedophiles/7.html?sect=19) Child erotica (that’s just subtle enough NOT to be illegal). Always hanging around boys. Not girls, not even children, BOYS. And most of them are the same age and look the same.
With all due respect, it’s not only little boys that get molested. Far from.
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### Author:  [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/130 "2005-06-13T21:40:04Z")
> [@FisherQueen](#):
>
> You know what else makes me angry?
>
> ‘Thriller’ is an awesome album. Really, truly very good. And I can’t ever listen to it and enjoy it, now that I know so much about the man who made it.
>
> I miss the guy I thought was Michael Jackson.
Not me. I don’t really care if he molested kittens or hand-fed squirming baby chicks to half-crazed-with-hunger orphans. What he may/may not have done later doesn’t–for me–affect his _Thriller_ album. Reasonable people might disagree about whether the music was good based on its quality, but I don’t feel his actions after the album’s release should influence that judgement.
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### Author:  [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/131 "2005-06-13T21:40:06Z")
> [@KGS](#):
>
> I’d like to hear from each of you how you developed your psychic abilities to know exactly what happened. Or maybe you just believe we should abandon our whole justice system and convict people based solely on the lunatic ravings of a crazy, con artist woman?
I don’t claim to know exactly what happened. You don’t know exactly what happened. The **jury** doesn’t know exactly what happened. We all have nothing more than beliefs, based on whatever portion of the evidence we’ve seen and heard. The only difference is that the jury’s beliefs carry the weight of law. But let’s keep it in perspective: The jury has no more psychic abilities to **know** what happened than anyone else.
I believe he molested little boys. Do I **know** that? No. But I and everyone else who believes that are as entitled to that belief as you are to your beliefs. I’ve seen no one suggesting that we abandon the justice system, but that doesn’t mean that we have to roll over and agree with every verdict.
I believe that the prosecution had a weak case that was then crippled by all the money Jackson had to throw at his defense. I have no doubt that, had the same “weak” case been made against a person of ordinary means, the verdict would have been substantially different.
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### Author:  [@inkleberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inkleberry)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/132 "2005-06-13T21:41:51Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#):
>
> OMFG…
>
> I’m watching the TV coverage. There’s some blonde woman in a green outfit, she’s got a cageful of white doves, and as each not guilty verdict is broadcast she hauls out a bird, kisses it, and releases it.
When I first saw her, I thought it was Martha Stewart. Now _that_ would have been interesting TV!
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### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/133 "2005-06-13T21:42:11Z")
Golly gee whiz. Twelve people who sat and listened verbatim to the testimony. Saw the actual witnesses somehow got it all wrong.
Yet those of you here on this board that got all of your evidence from media sources just know he was guilty.
:rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/134 "2005-06-13T21:42:52Z")
I for one am not surprised. From what I could gather, the evidence was insufficient and I certainly wouldn’t want him jailed on the least pretext. What kind of precedent would that set?
On the other hand, I do believe he did it. But the fault lies pretty highly with the kids’ moms, too…who the fuck lets their kid go to a suspected pedophile’s house and stay the night?
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### Author:  [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/135 "2005-06-13T21:42:59Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#):
>
> This is it!
>
> Count 1- NG
> Count 2 - NG
> Count 3 - NG
> Count 4 - NG
> Count 5 - NG
> Count 6 - NG
> Count 7 - NG
> Count 8 - NG
> Count 9 - NG
> Count 10 - NG
>
> Bastard got away with it. Well, so much for victims of child sex abuse coming forward ever again. Money talks.
>
> :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
> ☹☹☹☹☹☹☹
I called it.
I believe that he did it, but if I were a juror and convicted him on the word of a grifter and her family I’d soon be hanging from the nearest lamppost. They couldn’t prove it, and that’s the bottom line.
This is strike two for this DA. There has been a lot of theorising in the news that the DA out there only brought these charges because he was pissed that he couldn’t get Jackson in 1993 and has been obsessing about nailing him ever since. I dunno about all that, but I do know that he needs to let it go. Michael Jackson can now do anything he wants to do up to sucking 6 year old cock on video and he can’t be touched. We have an overzealous DA to thank for that.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/136 "2005-06-13T21:43:59Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#):
>
> I’m not sure why it matters but here you go.
>
> ::raises hand::
With all due respect, do you not see how your experience might create a bias against anyone accused of child molestation? Do you honestly think you could sit on a jury and objectively consider evidence in such a case?
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### Author:  [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/137 "2005-06-13T21:44:23Z")
Ok…so new sitcom.
Charles Manson, Michael and MARTHA!
C’mon, it’d be HILARIOUS!
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### Author:  [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/138 "2005-06-13T21:46:39Z")
They just asked Sneddon if this is the end of his pursuit of Jackson…he laughed and said he didn’t know.
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### Author:  [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/139 "2005-06-13T21:49:14Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> Child erotica (that’s just subtle enough NOT to be illegal).
He had no child erotica.
He had regular, plain vanilla, adult porn.
The _one_ item that featured photos of nude boys was not kept with his porn, and can’t really be called “erotica.” It’s a photodiary called “The Boy,” which documents the making of the film _The Lord of the Flies_.
“Hang him!” :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/140 "2005-06-13T21:51:35Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#):
>
> With all due respect, do you not see how your experience might create a bias against anyone accused of child molestation? Do you honestly think you could sit on a jury and objectively consider evidence in such a case?
The evidence and history in this case goes far beyond a mere accusation.
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