# Michael Jackson Verdict Reached!!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [June 13, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130 "2005-06-13T19:29:07Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 8
### Author:  [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/141 "2005-06-13T21:52:07Z")
Sigh. I’m watching Sneddon and he’s somber but OK. Good man doing his job as best he could, but he wasn’t given enough to work with. He’s only lost four cases before this.
I’m off to do something pure–my laundry. I honestly think a miscarriage of justice was done today. I was on a jury last year and we let two people go one of whom was probably guilty of a stabbing. It was the right decision given the lack of/evidence but it still haunts me.
Move the fuck out of Santa Barbara County, Michael, and go to Europe where they love you and will look the other way whatever you do. You’re as free as OJ. Not the sort of freedom I respect.
---
### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/142 "2005-06-13T21:52:23Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#):
>
> The evidence and history in this case goes far beyond a mere accusation.
Which avoids answering my question.
---
### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/143 "2005-06-13T21:54:27Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#):
>
> He had no child erotica.
>
> He had regular, plain vanilla, adult porn.
>
> The _one_ item that featured photos of nude boys was not kept with his porn, and can’t really be called “erotica.” It’s a photodiary called “The Boy,” which documents the making of the film _The Lord of the Flies_.
>
> “Hang him!” :rolleyes:
Many pedophiles will use adult pornography as part of the process of grooming their victims. There was a porno mag in this case that had both Jackson’s and the victim’s fingerprints on it.
Let’s also not forget that Jackson once payed another victim 20 million bucks to go away. Innocent people don’t do that.
---
### Author:  [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/144 "2005-06-13T21:55:18Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#):
>
> He had no child erotica.
>
> He had regular, plain vanilla, adult porn.
>
> The _one_ item that featured photos of nude boys was not kept with his porn, and can’t really be called “erotica.” It’s a photodiary called “The Boy,” which documents the making of the film _The Lord of the Flies_.
>
> “Hang him!” :rolleyes:
Yeah, you know, I was one of those who really figured he was guilty when the trial started. He’s too weird and hung out with boys too much, there must be something going on there.
But then the trial started and the prosecution’s case got weaker and weaker. I don’t believe _everyone_ could be bought off; if there was something there, _something_ would’ve come up. No one is that clever and stealthy, especially not a guy that relies on servants. I really don’t think he’s guilty. A freakin’ weirdo and a very pathetic guy whose kids will probably be kinda messed up but not a molester.
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/145 "2005-06-13T21:55:34Z")
I didn’t follow this trial very closely, but from what I saw of the plaintiffs, they were a slimy bunch. Had I been on the jury, I probably wouldn’t have known whom to believe. The guy was found innocent, so I suppose we should leave it at that. At least this trial wasn’t about someone being killed…
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### Author:  [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/146 "2005-06-13T21:56:15Z")
Anybody else watching Sneddon perform his best “bitter beer face” on TV? Hurts doesn’t it, Tom. That’s why you don’t bring frivolous charges against people without solid proof and credible witnesses.
---
### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/147 "2005-06-13T21:57:24Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#):
>
> Which avoids answering my question.
I was going to say more but I decided I didn’t want to go into personal details. Let’s just say that a lot of Jackson’s personality and MO looks very familiar to me.
---
### Author:  [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/148 "2005-06-13T21:57:56Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#):
>
> Let’s also not forget that Jackson once payed another victim 20 million bucks to go away. Innocent people don’t do that.
I thought that would be the thing that would do Michael in, but it had nothing to do with this case. Part of the prosecution’s case was an attempt to establish a pattern of behavior.
I would not be surprised to see Jacko leave the country.
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/149 "2005-06-13T21:58:06Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#):
>
> Many pedophiles will use adult pornography as part of the process of grooming their victims. There was a porno mag in this case that had both Jackson’s and the victim’s fingerprints on it.
>
> Let’s also not forget that Jackson once payed another victim 20 million bucks to go away. Innocent people don’t do that.
Oh, please. I’m sure some of friends’ kids have sneaked a peek at my Playboys when they’ve been at my house, and you’d find my fingerprints along with theirs. Does that make me guilty of pedophilia?
---
### Author:  [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/150 "2005-06-13T22:01:14Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#):
>
> Let’s also not forget that Jackson once payed another victim 20 million bucks to go away. Innocent people don’t do that.
Bullshit! Utter bullshit. People and companies do it all the time. JC Penny paid the mother for a bunch of shit that didn’t happen. Innocent companies and people do it all the time. People forget this guy spends millions on vacations, $20 million isn’t that much to a guy who has made hundreds of millions. Especially when his reputation was on the line.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/151 "2005-06-13T22:01:33Z")
> [@brickbacon](#):
>
> Anybody else watching Sneddon perform his best “bitter beer face” on TV? Hurts doesn’t it, Tom. That’s why you don’t bring frivolous charges against people without solid proof and credible witnesses.
Oh for godsakes. It wasn’t a personal vendetta. He was only doing his job. They HAVE to investigate, and apparently the grand jury found enough evidence to go ahead with a trial. Don’t tell me you buy that bullshit about it being a conspiracy to get PedoPan.
---
### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/152 "2005-06-13T22:03:54Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#):
>
> I was going to say more but I decided I didn’t want to go into personal details. Let’s just say that a lot of Jackson’s personality and MO looks very familiar to me.
You don’t have to post personal details.
Do you not see how your experience might create a bias against anyone accused of child molestation?
Do you honestly think you could sit on a jury and objectively consider evidence in such a case?
---
### Author:  [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/153 "2005-06-13T22:04:32Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#):
>
> He had no child erotica.
>
> He had regular, plain vanilla, adult porn.
>
> The one item that featured photos of nude boys was not kept with his porn, and can’t really be called “erotica.” It’s a photodiary called “The Boy,” which documents the making of the film The Lord of the Flies.
Then I was wrong when I referred to his having “child porn photo books” – at least with respect to using the plural. OTOH, who the hell would buy a book like “The Boy” unless he was keenly interested in such photos?
As for the police not finding a stash of child porn at Neverland, maybe they were no more expert in searching the premises as was the prosecutor in strategizing his arguments… I have the feeling that “The Boy” is the item that MJ overlooked in a preventive house-cleaning.
---
### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/154 "2005-06-13T22:05:18Z")
Do you sleep in the same beds with those kids? Have any kids ever accused you of showing them the magazines? have you ever paid a kid 20 million dollars not to testify against you? Do you give the kids Jesus juice? Have you had romantic/sexual relationships with adults? Do you have “special friends” who you hold hands with and kiss and bring on your airplane with you, and are those special friends always the same age and gender and physical type? Do you write them love letters?
It’s more than just one thing. The collective circumstancial evidence for Jackson being a pedophile is all but undeniable.
---
### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/155 "2005-06-13T22:05:28Z")
> [@The Sausage Creature](#):
>
> With all due respect, it’s not only little boys that get molested. Far from.
No, you misunderstand me. People who say, 'Well, maybe he just likes little kids" ignore the fact that he doesn’t like to hang around little kids-only little boys, usually around 10-15 years old. It’s like he targets a specific type. Michael Jackson specifically seems fixated on boys, but yes, girls are molested (actually, aren’t more girls molested than boys?)
---
### Author:  [@inkleberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inkleberry)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/156 "2005-06-13T22:06:29Z")
Anyone else wonder why the prosecution didn’t order a full psych assessment? That likely could have come in quite handy, especially in terms of character, motive, diagnosis, etc, but wouldn’t have opened up an NGRI defense because pedophiles aren’t psychotic/ lose all reality testing.
---
### Author:  [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/157 "2005-06-13T22:06:48Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> Oh for godsakes. It wasn’t a personal vendetta. He was only doing his job. They HAVE to investigate, and apparently the grand jury found enough evidence to go ahead with a trial. Don’t tell me you buy that bullshit about it being a conspiracy to get PedoPan.
I wouldn’t use the word vendetta, but it was personal. A grand jury will indict a ham sandwich, that doesn’t mean shit. It wasn’t a conspiracy, just stupid and misguided.
---
### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/158 "2005-06-13T22:07:16Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#):
>
> You don’t have to post personal details.
>
> Do you not see how your experience might create a bias against anyone accused of child molestation?
>
> Do you honestly think you could sit on a jury and objectively consider evidence in such a case?
I’m trying to say, that no, an accusation alone would not prejudice me. What prejudices me is the _evidence_ as well as a recognition of some of the same sort of tactics and personality.
---
### Author:  [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/159 "2005-06-13T22:07:44Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#):
>
> Many pedophiles will use adult pornography as part of the process of grooming their victims. There was a porno mag in this case that had both Jackson’s and the victim’s fingerprints on it.
In many, many, many more cases where an adult’s and a child’s fingerprints are found on the same skin-mag, it just means the kid found the adult’s porn-stash.
> [@](#):
>
> Let’s also not forget that Jackson once payed another victim 20 million bucks to go away. Innocent people don’t do that.
Actually, sometimes they do, when they have plenty of money and just want a nuisance to go away. There’s no admission of guilt.
Like Juror #3 has said “We all came in with our personal beliefs, and some of those differed, but we had to look at the evidence.”
---
### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2005, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jackson-verdict-reached/308130/160 "2005-06-13T22:08:22Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#):
>
> Do you sleep in the same beds with those kids? Have any kids ever accused you of showing them the magazines? have you ever paid a kid 20 million dollars not to testify against you? Do you give the kids Jesus juice? Have you had romantic/sexual relationships with adults? Do you have “special friends” who you hold hands with and kiss and bring on your airplane with you, and are those special friends always the same age and gender and physical type? Do you write them love letters?
>
> It’s more than just one thing. The collective circumstancial evidence for Jackson being a pedophile is all but undeniable.
This was addressed to John Mace.
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