# Michael Jordan "cut" from his high school team. Myth? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 12, 2017, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127 "2017-09-12T02:00:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/1 "2017-09-12T02:00:03Z")
I tried to tell my daughter that failure is not a bad thing because Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team. She told me that it wasn’t true and that I should check Snopes. I did: [http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=50849](http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=50849) Even though Snopes rates it as “false” the citation shows it to be true. Jordan was sent to the JV team as a 10th grader, even though the citation admits that his school kept a 10th grader on the varsity team. That rings to me as Jordan definitely being cut from the varsity team in favor of another kid that almost certainly didn’t become the greatest NBA player of all time. Is Snopes wrong on this or am I? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/2 "2017-09-12T02:07:22Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I tried to tell my daughter that failure is not a bad thing because Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team. She told me that it wasn’t true and that I should check Snopes. I did: > > [http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=50849](http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=50849) > > Even though Snopes rates it as “false” the citation shows it to be true. Jordan was sent to the JV team as a 10th grader, even though the citation admits that his school kept a 10th grader on the varsity team. > > That rings to me as Jordan definitely being cut from the varsity team in favor of another kid that almost certainly didn’t become the greatest NBA player of all time. Is Snopes wrong on this or am I? [Newsweek.](http://www.newsweek.com/missing-cut-382954) > [@](#): > > In 1978, Michael Jordan was just another kid in the gym, along with 50 or so of his classmates, trying out for the Emsley A. Laney High School varsity basketball team. There were 15 roster spots. **Jordan—then a 15-year-old sophomore who was only 5’10" and could not yet dunk a basketball—did not get one. His close friend, 6’7’’ sophomore Leroy Smith, did.** The team was in need of his length. “It was embarrassing not making the team,” Jordan later said. He went home, locked himself in his room and cried. > > The summer leading into his junior year, Jordan began to morph. In 1979 he grew 4 inches and worked out constantly. That year he made the varsity squad and instantly became Laney High’s best player, averaging more than 20 points a game. Despite having secured his spot on the team, Jordan’s work ethic didn’t drop off. His senior year he averaged a triple-double and led Laney High to a 19-4 record. Jordan capped off his high school career in style, being named a McDonald’s All-American. He wasn’t yet His Airness, but he was well on his way. Obviously, whatever talent he might have shown at at that point, it wasn’t enough to make up the height difference. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/3 "2017-09-12T02:08:47Z")
Just for the heck of it. [Big-Time Athletes Who Got Cut from Teams](http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2208503-big-time-athletes-who-got-cut-from-teams) ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/4 "2017-09-12T02:14:30Z")
Is there an official Snopes judgement on it,or just the message board post? But it seems like disingenuous semantics to me. “He wasn’t cut from the varsity team, he just wasn’t allowed to play on the varsity team, while another player with more apparent utility was allowed to” is pure bullshit by someone who desperately wants to believe he didn’t cut Jordan. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/5 "2017-09-12T02:18:49Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Is there an official Snopes judgement on it,or just the message board post? > > But it seems like disingenuous semantics to me. “He wasn’t cut from the varsity team, he just wasn’t allowed to play on the varsity team, while another player with more apparent utility was allowed to” is pure bullshit by someone who desperately wants to believe he didn’t cut Jordan. Technically, he wasn’t cut, he didn’t make the team to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/6 "2017-09-12T02:21:57Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Technically, he wasn’t cut, he didn’t make the team to begin with. I thought that not making the team was the definition of being “cut.” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/7 "2017-09-12T02:25:44Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I thought that not making the team was the definition of being “cut.” Based on the article, everyone was trying out for the team. He was never on varsity so he wasn’t cut from varsity. Now if the coach had named 20 players to varsity with the understanding that only 15 would be the Opening Day team, that would be getting cut. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/8 "2017-09-12T02:27:34Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Based on the article, everyone was trying out for the team. He was never on varsity so he wasn’t cut from varsity. That’s exactly what being cut is. Trying out for something and not making the cut to be on it. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/9 "2017-09-12T02:31:15Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Based on the article, everyone was trying out for the team. He was never on varsity so he wasn’t cut from varsity. > Now if the coach had named 20 players to varsity with the understanding that only 15 would be the Opening Day team, that would be getting cut. Again, that’s never been my understanding of the term. Say there are 20 spots on the high school baseball team and 50 boys show up to try out. On the “cut day” the names of 20 boys are posted outside the coach’s office (nowadays probably an email or tweet). If you were one of the 30 names not on that list you were “cut” without ever having been a member of the baseball team. Now, if there were enough boys that showed up, maybe those 30 would be a JV team, or organize a team for a different league. Of those 30, 20 made the new team and 10 were cut. However, from my understanding of the term, all 30 could say that they were cut from the high school team and 10 could say that they were cut twice, despite those boys having never been a member of either team. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/10 "2017-09-12T02:35:18Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > That’s exactly what being cut is. Trying out for something and not making the cut to be on it. How can you be cut “from” something you were never on? Semantics. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/11 "2017-09-12T02:47:08Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > How can you be cut “from” something you were never on? > > Semantics. Maybe this is the source of mine and Wolfman’s confusion with the Snopes piece. In what scenario would a person ever be cut under your definition? Even if the coach in your example has multiple rounds of cuts and winnows it down to 20 players but cuts the final 5 before the opening game, those 5 were never on the team, correct? I’ve seen that done as well. In my example you would start with 50 boys and cut 20 of them who were hopeless. Then you are left with 30 players and 20 slots. Then you can more closely evaluate the closer calls to finalize the team. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/12 "2017-09-12T02:47:47Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > How can you be cut “from” something you were never on? > > Semantics. By not being good enough to make it, just like the other millions of high school players, thousands of college athletes, and hundreds of players drafted by pro team who never made the roster. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/13 "2017-09-12T05:55:13Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > How can you be cut “from” something you were never on? > > Semantics. So what’s your definition of “cut”? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/14 "2017-09-12T06:24:06Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So what’s your definition of “cut”? I would use it the way **Running Coach** does. To be cut from a team you must already be on the team. So you join a team, you play a few games, then they decide to cut you. I’m not saying that’s right, but that is how I interpret the term with no other context, and presumably that is why some people interpret the story to be false vs true. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/15 "2017-09-12T06:28:08Z")
To expand a bit: There really needs to be more information. Just how much of a tryout did he do? If he turned up to one session, shot a few hoops, and was told “no”, I wouldn’t say he was “cut”. On the other hand, if went to numerous training sessions in pre-season and was ultimately left off the team then I would say he was “cut”, as he participated fully as a member of the team up to the point they decided who was going to playing the games. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/16 "2017-09-12T06:29:21Z")
Here’s an example of being “cut” from a team: > **[Big-Time Athletes Who Got Cut from Teams](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2208503-big-time-athletes-who-got-cut-from-teams)** > > No one enjoys being told that they're not good enough, but imagine the looks on some of the faces of athletes when they got word that they had been cut... It means trying out and not being chosen among those trying out. It’s not synonymous with being “fired” or “released” from a team you are a member of. See [Wiktionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/make_the_cut) for “make the cut”: _To succeed at something or meet a requirement; to be chosen out of a field of candidates or possibilities._ If Jordan tried out for a team and they decided he didn’t rank among those good enough to play, he was cut. It helps to understand the process a bit. Say 50 players try out but you only have room for 15. You can’t have all 50. So you “cut” down to 15. Those who fail are “cut”. Think of it like a huge plank of wood that you want to turn into a door. It’s way too big. So you cut off the excess until it’s the right size. That extra wood was never part of the door, the plank didn’t become a door until after it was trimmed, but that excess wood was still cut. Sorry if that was wordy but hopefully that helps explain the use of the term in sports, and why Snopes is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/17 "2017-09-12T06:35:47Z")
A similar difference in opinions on what being “cut” means here: [Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos](https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20131215145729AAJHSup) ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/18 "2017-09-12T06:44:05Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > See [Wiktionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/make_the_cut) for “make the cut”: > > _To succeed at something or meet a requirement; to be chosen out of a field of candidates or possibilities._ If the statement was that “Michael Jordan didn’t make the cut for the varsity team” then I think everyone would be in agreement. It’s the “cut _from_ the team” bit where the sports usage seems to differ from normal english. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/19 "2017-09-12T07:47:51Z")
In the UK, we wouldn’t use the word “cut” in either scenario. If you didn’t make the team in the first place we’d probably say “not selected”. If you get in and aren’t good enough and get dropped to a lower team we’d say “dropped” So in this case it seems like Jordan was “not selected” rather than “dropped” ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/20 "2017-09-12T09:43:54Z")
Random question from an ignorant Australian time: why is the high school team the “Varsity” team? Isn’t Varsity a colloquial term for University? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127.md?page=2)