# Michael Jordan "cut" from his high school team. Myth? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 12, 2017, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127 "2017-09-12T02:00:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/21 "2017-09-12T10:52:53Z")
For the people who think you have to be on the team to be cut, what do you think a “No-Cuts tryout” policy means? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/22 "2017-09-12T10:58:24Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I thought that not making the team was the definition of being “cut.” The Steelers cut me! ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/23 "2017-09-12T11:43:36Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > For the people who think you have to be on the team to be cut, what do you think a “No-Cuts tryout” policy means? You can’t bring knives. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/24 "2017-09-12T12:08:57Z")
If you want to inspire your kid through Michael Jordan’s example, you could also use a direct quote from him: > [@](#): > > I’ve missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I’ve lost almost 300 games. Twenty six times I’ve been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I’ve failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/25 "2017-09-12T12:09:24Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Random question from an ignorant Australian time: why is the high school team the “Varsity” team? Isn’t Varsity a colloquial term for University? Not in the US. There are generally two high school teams, the junior varsity (9th and 10th graders) and the varsity (11th, 12th, and talented underclassmen). Don’t know the etymology of the usage. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/26 "2017-09-12T12:37:11Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Random question from an ignorant Australian time: why is the high school team the “Varsity” team? Isn’t Varsity a colloquial term for University? Yes, originally, “varsity” originated as a contraction of “university,” but in the United States it is used to designate the top-level team at any educational institution, whether or not it is a university, and it’s most often used to refer to the top-level team at a high school. The players who don’t make the varsity team play on the junior varsity team. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/27 "2017-09-12T12:49:55Z")
Sometimes there’s also a third team just for freshmen. Though at a small school, the JV team might end up being the second string of the varsity team. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/28 "2017-09-12T13:01:23Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > For the people who think you have to be on the team to be cut, what do you think a “No-Cuts tryout” policy means? That’s a bit circular. Those of us who think you have to be on the team to be cut are using normal english and probably haven’t even heard of a “no-cuts tryout”. Being “cut from the team” is basically jargon, hence it doesn’t make much sense to those of us not in the know (and yes I realise we may be a minority). I wonder if the phrase was originally along the lines of “cut from the team tryouts” but it’s been shortened for convenience. That would make more sense. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/29 "2017-09-12T13:10:46Z")
I was a fair-to-middling Division 1 college baseball player. No team selected me in the Major League Baseball draft. After reading this thread, I’m changing the wording of my college baseball story to “I was cut by multiple teams in MLB”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/30 "2017-09-12T16:44:26Z")
Why limit it to just sports? All those times I applied and wasn’t hired for a job, I wasn’t turned down, I was cut from the company. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/31 "2017-09-12T17:07:48Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > There are generally two high school teams, the junior varsity (9th and 10th graders) and the varsity (11th, 12th, and talented underclassmen). Just to expound upon this a bit… As I understand it, nobody viewed this “cut” as a slight except Jordan (who is legendary for being hyper competitive). As a 10th grader, he was really just trying for one of the last spots on the varsity roster. It made sense for the coaches to fill that role with a tall kid who could come in and block shots, rebound, and generally fill up the paint (as noted upthread, he lost the spot to Leroy Smith, who was 6’7" as a 10th grader). It also makes sense to let the precocious point guard with the great skills start for the JV for another year, so he’ll get more playing time and experience. And that is what happened. If I recall correctly, this was a very high level high school team, so they were already competing at a championship level before Jordan joined the varsity. Moreover, everybody knew he would be a star once he became a Junior. Players and coaches would show up early to watch him dominate on the JV team. It was just a matter of letting him get a little older (and, as it turned out, taller). Jordan, of course, interpreted it as a slight, and used it as a motivator to continue his improvement. From a coaches perspective, though, it makes sense. (It’s kind of like if some renowned genius had applied to Harvard at 15, and was told to re-apply after he graduated high school; which he promptly did, being accepted with open arms. If the story got told as XX was rejected from Harvard, it would be technically true, but a bit embellished). ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/32 "2017-09-12T17:35:20Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Why limit it to just sports? > > All those times I applied and wasn’t hired for a job, I wasn’t turned down, I was cut from the company. Possibly. If you applied for the position and given a “tryout” where you competed against others in your field, and didn’t get hired on, then yes. A close analogy is if you work as an intern on a temporary basis and eventually a small number of those interns get hired on full time while others are let go. In that situation you were cut just like a sports team. Players aren’t stepping into a room, talking with coaches, then after an interview being told, “We’ll be in touch.” It’s a totally different process. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/33 "2017-09-12T18:02:30Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Here’s an example of being “cut” from a team: > [http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2208503-big-time-athletes-who-got-cut-from-teams](http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2208503-big-time-athletes-who-got-cut-from-teams) > > It means trying out and not being chosen among those trying out. It’s not synonymous with being “fired” or “released” from a team you are a member of. See [Wiktionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/make_the_cut) for “make the cut”: > > _To succeed at something or meet a requirement; to be chosen out of a field of candidates or possibilities._ > > If Jordan tried out for a team and they decided he didn’t rank among those good enough to play, he was cut. It helps to understand the process a bit. Say 50 players try out but you only have room for 15. You can’t have all 50. So you “cut” down to 15. Those who fail are “cut”. > > Think of it like a huge plank of wood that you want to turn into a door. It’s way too big. So you cut off the excess until it’s the right size. That extra wood was never part of the door, the plank didn’t become a door until after it was trimmed, but that excess wood was still cut. > > Sorry if that was wordy but hopefully that helps explain the use of the term in sports, and why Snopes is incorrect. Your explanation is actually fairly succinct and well-structured; it’s a pity that it’s not entirely correct. You even use the correct usage yourself: he was cut. He was not cut from the team; he was cut from the tryouts. You cannot be cut from the team if you were not on the team. Michael Jordan was not cut from his high school team. “He did not make his high school team” is an accurate statement as is “he was cut during tryouts”, but “he was cut from his high school team” is not accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Clawdio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d07c76/32.png) [@Clawdio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clawdio)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/34 "2017-09-12T18:52:31Z")
In my mind “cut from tryouts” is synonymous with “cut from the team”. It’s kind of blowing my mind that others see it differently. In the NFL, if an undrafted rookie is invited to training camp, participates in training camp, and then doesn’t make the final roster at the end of training camp, isn’t it common to say he was cut from the team? Same with Jordan, he participated in the tryout, but didn’t make the varsity squad so I would say he was cut from the team. I did not attend my high school team tryouts, so I cannot say I was cut. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/35 "2017-09-12T21:12:38Z")
> [@Clawdio](#): > > In my mind “cut from tryouts” is synonymous with “cut from the team”. It’s kind of blowing my mind that others see it differently. > > In the NFL, if an undrafted rookie is invited to training camp, participates in training camp, and then doesn’t make the final roster at the end of training camp, isn’t it common to say he was cut from the team? Same with Jordan, he participated in the tryout, but didn’t make the varsity squad so I would say he was cut from the team. I did not attend my high school team tryouts, so I cannot say I was cut. But you would answer the question “Was Jordan on his high school basketball team that year?” with a “no”, wouldn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Clawdio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d07c76/32.png) [@Clawdio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clawdio)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/36 "2017-09-12T21:15:04Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > But you would answer the question “Was Jordan on his high school basketball team that year?” with a “no”, wouldn’t you? Correct, because he was cut. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/37 "2017-09-12T22:13:37Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > But you would answer the question “Was Jordan on his high school basketball team that year?” with a “no”, wouldn’t you? No, you wouldn’t. If you were being accurate, you would say that he was the superstar of the JV team. He filled the gym with gawkers and had a couple 40 point games. But he didn’t make the Varsity squad. (I don’t know how accurate it is, but this [cite](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/jordan-high-school-amateur-exhibition.html#all_hs7879) gives his High School stats. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/38 "2017-09-12T22:24:10Z")
> [@Clawdio](#): > > In the NFL, if an undrafted rookie is invited to training camp, participates in training camp, and then doesn’t make the final roster at the end of training camp, isn’t it common to say he was cut from the team? Same with Jordan, he participated in the tryout, but didn’t make the varsity squad so I would say he was cut from the team. I did not attend my high school team tryouts, so I cannot say I was cut. I think this may be the crux of the issue. Guys “don’t make the team” or “don’t make it out of camp” if they don’t make it out of training camp/drills. For both the MLB and the NFL, the term “cut” (at least IMHO) is used after a ‘game’ is played (spring training for MLB, preseason for NFL). And typically happen when the league mandates a cut in roster size. The guys who are cut during intrasquad drills were not “on the roster”. Jordan was not cut, he didn’t make it out of camp. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/39 "2017-09-12T22:40:56Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Your explanation is actually fairly succinct and well-structured; it’s a pity that it’s not entirely correct. > > You even use the correct usage yourself: he was cut. He was not cut from the team; he was cut from the tryouts. You cannot be cut from the team if you were not on the team. > > Michael Jordan was not cut from his high school team. “He did not make his high school team” is an accurate statement as is “he was cut during tryouts”, but “he was cut from his high school team” is not accurate. The “correct” usage in sports is the usage in sports. You’re considered cut “from” a team if you try out and fail. You were never on the team but that’s immaterial, if you tried out that’s the terminology. It doesn’t make sense but hey, it’s sports. 😛 The article linked to earlier was about famous players cut “from” teams that they were never on the roster for. Sometimes sports have confusing terminology for things, how can you have a “home” run as a visitor in baseball, etc. It’s a colloquialism. Another thing to consider is that everyone who tries out for a team is a potential player. They won’t entertain everyone who wants to join. Your aunt Edna who wants to try out for the Spurs won’t even get to try. So to be cut “from” the team you at least have to be a prospect, if that helps. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127/40 "2017-09-12T22:58:22Z")
I think there’s a confusion of two similar but slightly different phrases- “making the cut” and “being cut” or just “cut”. Being cut from a team is synonymous with being let go. You were on the team, but now you’re off. Making the cut is trying out for a team and being judged good enough to make the team. Not making the cut would be the opposite. Personally, I would never say “you were cut” to mean “you didn’t make the cut”, but obviously there’s some difference of opinion on the issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-jordan-cut-from-his-high-school-team-myth/796127.md?page=3)