# Michael Moore = ass. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 24, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688 "2003-03-24T03:16:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/201 "2003-03-24T21:37:39Z")
The whole pack of you are being ridiculous: A: Michael Moore might be an ass, but he is entitled to use his one shot at addressing a worldwide audience in any way he sees fit. I throughly disagree with the tone and the content of his self-aggrandizing acceptance speech, but I will defend his right to speak his mind. B. The Oscars have never been politics free. Remember Sacheen Littlefeather? Remember in 1974 the producers of **Hearts and Minds** reading a congratulatory telegram from the North Vietnamese government that sent the on-air presenters into a tizzy? It’s ludicrous to think that there should be no comments on this wildly divisive war. C. Michael Moore is not a hero, so stop talking shite, **Diogenes**. The man makes a living posing as the little guy taking on faceless, monolithic corporations and the evil GOP pod people. The Oscar speech was just advertising for MM. ---
**Author:** ![CLedet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b487fb/32.png) [@CLedet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLedet)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/202 "2003-03-24T21:48:57Z")
Maybe Moore and Polanski should get together and chant “Make love to children, not war”. What Moore did forget to mention in his “fictitious” speech is that he’s the biggest fake of them all. But I can understand him not doing that, after all it is how the fake bastard makes his living. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/203 "2003-03-24T21:56:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hamlet \* > Obviously not, as the rest of your post indicates. Golly gee, was that ever devoid of substance. Just like you wish the Oscars would be, right? ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/204 "2003-03-24T22:09:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > A: Michael Moore might be an ass, but he is entitled to use his one shot at addressing a worldwide audience in any way he sees fit. I throughly disagree with the tone and the content of his self-aggrandizing acceptance speech, but I will defend his right to speak his mind. He’s as entitled to use that shot as the audience is to boo him. No reasonable person is saying he should be arrested/shot/forcibly muzzled, but if he’s going to spew ugly rhetoric he shouldn’t be surprised to get booed off the stage. I keep thinking of Leslie Nielsen’s “let’s skin these cats and feed them to the homeless” Oscar (IIRC) speech from _Naked Gun 2_- you can say what you’d like within legal limits, but that doesn’t mean the audience has to like it. > [@](#): > > B. The Oscars have never been politics free. Remember Sacheen Littlefeather? Remember in 1974 the producers of **Hearts and Minds** reading a congratulatory telegram from the North Vietnamese government that sent the on-air presenters into a tizzy? It’s ludicrous to think that there should be no comments on this wildly divisive war. _Never?_ Come on, how many political speeches were there between 1924 and 1970? And most people are complaining about the style and actual substance of his tactless ranting, not the topic. > [@](#): > > C. Michael Moore is not a hero, so stop talking shite, **Diogenes**. The man makes a living posing as the little guy taking on faceless, monolithic corporations and the evil GOP pod people. The Oscar speech was just advertising for MM. Well, I agree with you on one thing then. And $38 is _waaayyy_ too much to get a pie via 2 day air. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/205 "2003-03-24T22:10:17Z")
Backing up **gobear** , I’ll point out that George C. Scott refused his Oscar for his role in _Patton_ because he found the politics surrounding the event “demeaning.” Then in 1972 Brando refused his Oscar for _The Godfather_, citing discrimination by the United States and Hollywood against American Indians. (I never figured that one out, since 1970’s _Little Big Man_ was an excellent film which included Chief Dan George, who went on to be come President of the National Congress of American Indians. ) I hope that hasn’t already been mentioned somewhere back in this thread. If it was, it’s probably worth repeating–this sort of nonsense is neither new nor exciting. ---
**Author:** ![DeskMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DeskMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeskMonkey)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/206 "2003-03-24T22:11:39Z")
Some people clapped, some booed. That’s entertainment! I would have been shocked if he hadn’t said what he said in the exact way he said it. You could tell when he won that people were DYING to hear him say something hard-hitting. Everyone in the audience had a certain “here we go!” look on their faces and you could see people whispering to each other in anticipation. Why do you think he got a standing ovation? I know we were rooting for him just because we wanted to hear what he’d say if he were given a stage, a microphone, and 45 seconds. So I think he did exactly what people expected and ultimately wanted of him. It’s what he’s known for, being an obnoxious, in-your-face kind of guy. Love him or hate him, this is exactly why he won the Academy Award in the first place. He was just doing what he does. If the Academy wanted to keep things calm and non-political, they wouldn’t have offered him the award and the stage. I wonder if someone else had won, would all the nominees have gone up on stage and let the winner give that speech? It seems like they kind of planned it. They were all wearing the same blue button and it would have taken him a lot longer to get them all wrangled together and up on stage if they had no idea what he was doing. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/207 "2003-03-24T22:13:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*Golly gee, was that ever devoid of substance. Just like you wish the Oscars would be, right? \*\* Why should I put any substance into a post when you’ve indicated, over and over in this thread, your inability to understand a differing viewpoint. Reread the posts of **beagledave** , **SolGrundy** and **Dewey** , if you want substance. I don’t even agree with them, but at least I attempt to understand their point, rather than consistently mistating it. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/208 "2003-03-24T22:16:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\* > To the extent that it’s just a bunch of pro-war crybabies getting their panties in a bunch because the mean liberal fat guy insulted them, I think it’s fucking hilarious. Nice job, Mike! \*\* So “pro war crybaby” **Diogenes the Cynic** was wrong in calling Moore “inappropriate”, right? Just trying to keep all my notes straight. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/209 "2003-03-24T22:30:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Maybe Moore and Polanski should get together and chant “Make love to children, not war”. Implying that Moore supports pedophilia is just a little bit over the top, don’t you think? I don’t see how anyone can be surprised or shocked at Moore’s comments. He is, after all, a professional ass. Stirring the turd is what got him to where he is today, and if he had failed to do so in his Oscar acceptance speech he would have been turning his back on all that. I was a big fan of Mike at one time, and I still support his ideas, though he annoys me with his tendency to supplement those ideas with less than factual information. There’s plenty to be outraged about in the documented facts themselves, if you ask me. Poor fact-checking just gives ammunition to his opponents, and keeps them from having to deal with the ideas themselves. BfC was not quite the film it could have been, but it deserved the Oscar, if only as a make-up Oscar for _Roger and Me_. Dr. J ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/210 "2003-03-24T23:04:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hamlet \* > Why should I put any substance into a post when you’ve indicated, over and over in this thread, your inability to understand a differing viewpoint. Reread the posts of **beagledave** , **SolGrundy** and **Dewey** , if you want substance. I don’t even agree with them, but at least I attempt to understand their point, rather than consistently mistating it. Hamlet, I haven’t got the slightest fucking clue what you’re complaining about w/r/t me. I have identified exactly what said posters are whining about–politics! at the Academy Awards! by a fat, rich liberal!–and identified that I think their complaint is stupid, illogical, meritless, and almost certainly a bullshit rationalization of their underlying complaint, which is that they hate the content of Moore’s statements. The balance is nothing more than naked assertions that they’d slag pro-war celebs who did stuff in similar situations (though those “similar situations” appear to be nothing more than “other Academy Awards cermonies”), despite a complete dearth of any evidence that said whiners have in fact ever complained about any such thing. Sorry, ain’t buying. Get back to me when you’ve expressed outrage at some dumbass right-wing celeb for a change. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/211 "2003-03-24T23:08:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > So “pro war crybaby” **Diogenes the Cynic** was wrong in calling Moore “inappropriate”, right? Please, do me the honor of not asking me to dignify anything that guy says with a response. I would suggest this as the most useful posture any of us could take with DtC, but that decision is entirely up to yourselves. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/212 "2003-03-24T23:14:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*… a bullshit rationalization of their underlying complaint, which is that they hate the content of Moore’s statements. > \*\* And you described **all** of us as…ummm… “ **pro-war** crybabies”…right? Interesting. Cite?..or is that another one of your “naked assertions” as well? Just trying to sort out your “real” points from your “naked assertions”…it’s tricky. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/213 "2003-03-24T23:18:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > And you described **all** of us as…ummm… > “ **pro-war** crybabies”…right? Wrong, and I defy you to find where I said the word “all” in that context. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/214 "2003-03-24T23:18:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*Please, do me the honor of not asking me to dignify anything that guy says with a response. I would suggest this as the most useful posture any of us could take with DtC, but that decision is entirely up to yourselves. \*\* Well shit minty…when you claim that all of the folks ripping on Moore are “pro war crybabies”…and even left of Mao DtC calls Moore’s actions “inappropriate”…it makes your hyperbole look silly. You’ll not find me in the DtC fan club…trust me. But on occasion, even in this thread, he realizes when he has cranked up the hyperbole meter a bit high…and retreats (not enough IMHO…but still). I (like some of the other posters in this thread) am a little surprised at the level of hyperbole that you’ve thrown out…and stuck with. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/215 "2003-03-24T23:20:16Z")
Again, I defy you to find the word “all” in my posts. Knock yourself out, beagledave. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/216 "2003-03-24T23:28:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*Wrong, and I defy you to find where I said the word “all” in that context. \*\* > [@](#): > > To the extent that it’s just a bunch of pro-war crybabies getting their panties in a bunch because the mean liberal fat guy insulted them, I think it’s fucking hilarious. Nice job, Mike! I guess you really meant “a bunch of pro-war crybabies…oh and a few anti war crybabies…oh and a few stuck on the fence crybabies”? Uh huh. You earlier claimed that people were objecting to the political content of Moore’s statement (not his crassness)…another suggestion that it’s only people opposed to Moore’s politics…i.e pro war folks. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/217 "2003-03-24T23:47:08Z")
WTF did you people expect Micheal Moore to do when he won? I’d be pitting him if he DIDN’T go off on the president! And why aren’t you all outraged that someone who drugs teenagers then rapes them wins an award? is that less wrong than Moore being Moore? You people need to get your priorities straight. ---
**Author:** ![HoldenCaulfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/22d042/32.png) [@HoldenCaulfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoldenCaulfield)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/218 "2003-03-25T00:12:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*WTF did you people expect Micheal Moore to do when he won? I’d be pitting him if he DIDN’T go off on the president! And why aren’t you all outraged that someone who drugs teenagers then rapes them wins an award? is that less wrong than Moore being Moore? You people need to get your priorities straight. \*\* Deciding whether the Academy should consider the morality of the recipient when awarding Oscars is for another thread. ---
**Author:** ![HoldenCaulfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/22d042/32.png) [@HoldenCaulfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoldenCaulfield)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/219 "2003-03-25T00:18:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*WTF did you people expect Micheal Moore to do when he won? I’d be pitting him if he DIDN’T go off on the president! And why aren’t you all outraged that someone who drugs teenagers then rapes them wins an award? is that less wrong than Moore being Moore? You people need to get your priorities straight. \*\* Deciding whether the Academy should consider the morality of the recipient when awarding Oscars is for another thread. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/220 "2003-03-25T00:21:57Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by me, as quoted by beagledave_ > To the extent that it’s just a bunch of pro-war crybabies getting their panties in a bunch because the mean liberal fat guy insulted them, I think it’s fucking hilarious. Nice job, Mike! Shitty job, beagledave. The qualifier, which your added emphasis did not acknowledge, is rather fucking important to the meaning of the sentence. Observe, as the magic of the English language demonstrates that I said fuck-all nothing about “all” of you: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by me, with emphasis on the qualifier overlooked by beagledave_ > To the extent that it’s just a bunch of pro-war crybabies getting their panties in a bunch because the mean liberal fat guy insulted them, I think it’s fucking hilarious. Nice job, Mike! In fact, you will note that, immediately preceding the sentence you quoted, I had already discussed OTHER categories of complainants, describing them with the exact same “[t]o the extent that” language. I have no idea where you get this " **all** of us crap. Sheesh, my very first post in this thread was expressly limited to “_certain posters herein_.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688.md?page=12)