# Michael Moore = ass. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 24, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688 "2003-03-24T03:16:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/161 "2003-03-24T17:21:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > I’m sorry but I think most of them are just full of shit. They’re pissed off because of _what_ he said, not _where_ he said it. There may be one or two exceptions, but for the most part, i think they just hate Moore for his opinions, and I don’t believe we’d have a pit thread for anyone who had given a “support the troops” speech. Would you like a bit of free advice? It’s worth what you paid for it, of course, and you’re perfectly free to ignore it. You seriously need to stop posting about this, in my opinion. You’re treading at the top of a long and slippery slope. For what it’s worth, if Charleton Heston or someone similar had stood at the microphone last night and said something to the effect of “You peace-loving pinko lefties need to grow a pair and _support this war_!” I certainly would have taken umbrage. Not that you’ll believe me, of course. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/162 "2003-03-24T17:23:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LordVor \* > \*\*Where the fuck did that come from? DtC is saying that expressing an unpopular opinion takes more courage than expressing a popular opinion. > \*\* Are you **really** asserting that opposition to the war is an “unpopular” opinion in Hollywood? :dubious: I suspect that the **manner** and **tone** of Moore’s statement was the “unpopular” part. Do we give out hero props for being an ass these days? If so, my comparison with the drunken frat boy is appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/163 "2003-03-24T17:24:51Z")
So it’s a special rule, only applicable to the Oscars, or perhaps entertainment awards shows in general. \bullshit\ ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/164 "2003-03-24T17:34:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by drpepper \* > \*\*Are you even freaking _listening_ to yourself, **Dio**? Your vitriolic frothing at the mouth because of your hatred for Bush is digging you in so deep that you don’t even make any sense anymore. Your spouting off unsubstantiated bullshit (mandatory Bible study… riiiiight) and coming off like a silly partisan ass who can’t think straight. Just take a deep breath, and admit you are acting like a loose cannon here, and looking for any excuse to bash. “Bush is not risking getting booed off stage or suffering career damage…”? Hello??? Is the man President by Papal fiat? A political career is about the most dangerous there is when it comes to the consequences of one’s missteps. > > I’m not a huge fan of the man, either, but for Christ’s sake! I know you are smarter than this! \*\* There is nothing politically risky about epsousing Christianity. It is an extremely safe course for Bush to take, even if it _is_ inappropriate. Would any of the Moore bashers out there please address my points vis-a-vis Bush’s frequent hijacking of his own public forum to prattle about Christianity. Is that inappropriate too? Would you like to see him get booed for it? Oh, and I’m sorry that I misrepresented the Bush policy about the prayer meetings. He does not “force” anyone to go to them. I felt that he was _virtually_ forcing them by promoting a White House culture of religious fundamentalism, but I shouldn’t have stated my (admittedly biased) “feeling” as a fact. it was a poor choice of words. I’ve been so pissed of about this war that I can’t think straight lately. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/165 "2003-03-24T17:34:51Z")
The producer of the show Gil Cates said > [@](#): > > [link](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5944-621807,00.html) > “People who present an award on a show come to present and it would incorrect in my view and inappropriate for them to make any changes to what they have agreed to say,” he said. “The nominee, on the other hand, has earned their 45 seconds in the sun and while I personally might prefer them to stick to the reason that they’re there, it’s their 45 seconds and within the bounds of good taste they can say what they want.” I take the “bounds of good taste” to be bad launguage etc. MM said > [@](#): > > [link](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2880115.stm) > Whoa. On behalf of our producers Kathleen Glynn and Michael Donovan from Canada, I’d like to thank the Academy for this. > > I have invited my fellow documentary nominees on the stage with us, and we would like to - they’re here in solidarity with me because we like non-fiction. > > We like non-fiction and we live in fictitious times. We live in the time where we have fictitious election results that elects a fictitious president. > > We live in a time where we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons. Whether it’s the fictition of duct tape or fictition of orange alerts we are against this war, Mr Bush. > > Shame on you, Mr Bush, shame on you. And any time you got the Pope and the Dixie Chicks against you, your time is up. Thank you very much. Fits into the rules AFAICS. Who knew the Oscars was so important to some viewers. Do people tape it and then walk around holding the tape stroking it repeating _Precccious_ to themselves? ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/166 "2003-03-24T17:43:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*So it’s a special rule, only applicable to the Oscars, or perhaps entertainment awards shows in general. > > \bullshit\ \*\* Holy shit. First you suggest (repeatedly) , well geez boys and girls…you would NEVER act this way towards a pro war speaker at the Oscars, that we currently lack “credibility” with you (oh No!!!). Several of us point out the obvious…that we would react in similar fashion towards pro war assholes. (even DtC has called Moore’s actions “inappropriate” ) Do you retract the “consistency” accusation? Nope. Now you come out of left field saying that we’re honestly suggesting that acting like an ass is only a point for discussion for the Oscars. Riggggggght. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/167 "2003-03-24T17:44:44Z")
Well done, **Diogenes the Cynic**. I am impressed. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/168 "2003-03-24T17:47:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > \*\* I take the “bounds of good taste” to be bad launguage etc. \*\* Apparently the audience…composed of actual **members of the Academy** has a different take on “the bounds of good taste”. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/169 "2003-03-24T17:51:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\* C’mon guys, if you’re going to have ANY credibility on this, start bashing pro-war celebs who express their opinions. May I suggest you start with that terrible “Do You Remember?” song? Blech! \*\* I’ll tell you what; the next time a celebrity goes into a pro-war rant at an awards show, or at any other function where the rant is inappropriate, you just bring it to my attention and I’ll take 'em to the Pit. Of course, I don’t recall that happening any time recently. But the next time it does, let me know and I’ll rip into them. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/170 "2003-03-24T17:55:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Of course, I don’t recall that happening any time recently. But the next time it does, let me know and I’ll rip into them. Watch the CMA awards sometime. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/171 "2003-03-24T18:01:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > \*\*Apparently the audience…composed of actual **members of the Academy** has a different take on “the bounds of good taste”. \*\* and they booed. Bully for them. What’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/172 "2003-03-24T18:02:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > Now you come out of left field saying that we’re honestly suggesting that acting like an ass is only a point for discussion for the Oscars. Sorry, but that’s entirely circular reasoning. What’s under discussion is whether expressing political sentiments at the Oscars is “acting like an ass.” Given that Oscar acceptance speeches have been a political forum for decades, and that the producers of the show have expressly authorized such statements, I would suggest that the people who think Moore’s speech was indeed “acting like an ass” might want to watch something more suitable to their refined and delicate sensibilities instead of whining like a bunch of fucking crybabies. “Goodness gracious, Martha, that person says he’s opposed to the President and the war! Help me, I may go faint and expire from the horror of it all!” ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/173 "2003-03-24T18:02:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rilchiam \* > Mr. Rilch, reading over my shoulder, has a reply to that. > > “We’ll see how much of a hero he is when he starts his next project. I don’t see anyone in Hollywood giving him a dime after this.” Well rather than read over your shoulder, hubby needs to read the whole thread, because he completely missed my point, which was in response to LolaCocaCola’s post, and was that whether you get cheered or booed does not make you a “hero” or “not a hero”. I didn’t say he was or wasn’t a hero, I simply said that popularity is irrelevant to the question. And for that matter, so is the question of how much money he gets for his projects. C’mon, do you really believe that getting money for projects makes one a hero? But while we’re on the subject, I seriously doubt that this one incident will kill his career. Moore has never been politically correct, and it hasn’t seemed to hurt him too much so far. In fact, he seems to thrive on controversy; that’s basically his whole shtick. If he started kissing butt for money now, it would undo everything he’s about. And regarding the “booed off stage” thing, I saw his speech, and if anything, the boos increased his resolve to continue speaking. His voice just got louder, as if he were trying to talk over the booing. I seriously doubt that the music was cued because of the political content of his speech. Lots of people had their speeches cut short by the music because they had a time limit in place. If someone has an actual source that says otherwise, I might believe it, but it seemed obvious to me that Moore was quite determined to speak his mind, and stayed on stage as long as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/174 "2003-03-24T18:09:13Z")
Back to the spanish guy. I wasn’t refering to Pedro with the dead raccoon-type hair. (Was it just me or did he look like a bloated Little Eddie Munster?) The other spanish guy who introduced one of the songs, I missed his little speech, but it seemed to get rave reviews from the audience. Who the heck was he? Thank you and please, return to your regularly schedule trainwreck. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/175 "2003-03-24T18:23:05Z")
Moore isn’t the first person to get booed on stage at the Oscars. I can’t remember what year it was, but when Vanessa Redgrave won Best Supporting Actress she got up on stage, and being pro-Palestinian as she was then, she made some kind of political comment about Israel and “Zionist hoodlums”. I’ll have to look up what year that was. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/176 "2003-03-24T18:25:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*Sorry, but that’s entirely circular reasoning. What’s under discussion is whether expressing political sentiments at the Oscars is “acting like an ass.” \*\* Good Lord…you still don’t get it? There were other people at the Oscars who made political statements without being asses. (Chris Cooper, Susan Sarandon, Gael Garcia Bernal, Andy Serkis, Adrien Brody…) Making a political statement (and there are lots of ways of doing so) does not **automatically** qualify as [assholish](http://www.msnbc.com/news/889991.asp?0cb=-21c142706) behavior. But…nice attempt at a strawman there. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > \*\* > I would suggest that the people who think Moore’s speech was indeed “acting like an ass” might want to watch something more suitable to their refined and delicate sensibilities instead of whining like a bunch of fucking crybabies. > \*\* We’ll be sure to pass on your astute observations to the members of the academy in attendance…most who seemed to boo the cretin. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/177 "2003-03-24T18:38:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*Except, of course, that’s not even remotely like the Oscars, which have repeatedly been used for the espousal of political viewpoints, a practice which was expressly approved by the organizers of the event. \*\* Actually, the Oscars _haven’t_ been used all that commonly for garish political expression, which is why when it does happen it’s newsworthy. Everyone remembers Marlon Brando’s fake Indian and Richard Gere prattling on about Tibet precisely because that sort of nonsense is out of place at the Oscar ceremony. (Like **beagle** , I agree that understated expression, such as wearing a ribbon for your favored cause, is probably appropriate under the circumstances). And again, the organizers are not the end-all, be-all of what is appropriate behavior. Even if I had given my best man a green light to crow about his political position du jour, most of my guests would have been appalled – and rightly so, because a wedding just isn’t the appropriate place for that kind of thing. This is not about the content of Moore’s speech; it is about appropriate behavior at a given venue. I’m reminded of the SNL sketch shortly after 9/11 about the company that encouraged its employees to wear red, white and blue; Will Ferrell walks into a meeting wearing nothing but a flag-colored Speedo that left precious little to the imagination; hilarity ensues. What Moore did is (metaphorically, thank God) wear an antiwar Speedo at the Oscars. \*\* > [@](#): > > In all other respects, I’m sure your wedding was exactly like the Oscars. :p\*\* Given the frequency with which I was yanked from photo op to photo op, it sometimes _felt_ like the Oscars… 😃 \*\* > [@](#): > > No, I believe they are rationalizing. I believe this because I ain’t seen any of these sorry SOB’s whining about anybody else expressing their views in other forums, except perhaps in the recent case of the Dixie Chicks. \*\* Maybe that’s because they don’t have any problem with celebrities, left or right, expressing their views in other forums? If Windbag Moore wants to spew his invective at one of his book signings, Godspeed to him. In that case, I may well criticize the substance of what he says (because I disagree) but I won’t question the propriety of his making the statements in the first place. \*\* > [@](#): > > C’mon guys, if you’re going to have ANY credibility on this, start bashing pro-war celebs who express their opinions. May I suggest you start with that terrible “Do You Remember?” song? Blech! \*\* I think we can all agree that sentimental glurge is a crime against humanity and should feel the full wrath of John Ashcroft unleashed. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/178 "2003-03-24T18:39:03Z")
> [@](#): > > There were other people at the Oscars who made political statements without being asses. In other words they didn’t criticize GWB. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/179 "2003-03-24T18:42:44Z")
Oh, good Lord, man, don’t start again. I was just beginning to think you were a better person than that. ---
**Author:** ![athene1765](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@athene1765](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athene1765)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688/180 "2003-03-24T18:42:49Z")
So Moore’s an asshole. Go fucking figure. You couldn’t have figured that out from his books, interviews, etc.? Personally, I think he’s a complete dickwad because he’s so fucking smug. He’s made millions off his books, conferences, what have you. As someone else said in this same forum, never trust a rich socialist. He’s a hypocritical, rude, obnoxious asshole. But in this damn fine country, he can make millions off it. Bully for him. But I can still call him a total asshole, and I’m just as right as he is. It is opinion, after all. Sure, he was rude at the Awards. That couldn’t have been a shocker to the Academy, to the crowd, to the folks who lost out on the Oscar. No one seriously thought, if they’d given it a moment’s consideration, that he would spare anyone’s sensibilities by being a gentleman for twenty seconds. Miss Manners would NOT approve. I shouldn’t think he’d care, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-ass/163688.md?page=10)