# Michael Moore, have you at last no decency? (short) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 8, 2004, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041 "2004-04-08T22:14:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041/101 "2004-04-09T21:40:39Z")
> [@chula](#): > > Michael Moore is one of the few people who has achieved any mainstream notoriety who even raises certain important issues. He seems to be fairly well known outside of the United States, unlike more obscure intellectual types. Prior to this year Gore Vidal lived in Europe for 4 decades. Besides which, Keanu Reeves is better known than Derek Jacoby, but few would agree that this makes him the better actor or “the only person who makes decent movies”. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041/102 "2004-04-09T21:59:13Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Prior to this year Gore Vidal lived in Europe for 4 decades. Besides which, Keanu Reeves is better known than Derek Jacoby, but few would agree that this makes him the better actor or “the only person who makes decent movies”. 😕 Are you claiming that Gore Vidal is more widely known abroad than Michael Moore? Did someone say or imply that MM was “the only person who makes decent movies”? This thread isn’t so complicated that you have an excuse for not keeping up; this is what you were responding to: > [@](#): > > And for what it’s worth, from this side of the Atlantic, people like Moore (and, thank God, a lot of the posters on the SDMB) are the only evidence we have that there are actually people with functioning fucking brains over there, and not just morons that’ll swallow whatever shite Bush crimps off daily from between his simian butt cheeks. What I was saying was the Michael Moore seems to be one of the best-known left-wing critics out there. I just got back from living in Central America and a lot of people I knew were talking about _Bowling from Columbine_. I’m sure many people there were surprised to find out that many Americans are critical of those aspects of American society, because you don’t hear about certain issues in the mainstream media. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041/103 "2004-04-09T22:43:41Z")
(WARNING! LINK IS NOT WORK SAFE!) I think the Bush composite is an appropriate and poignant reminder. For sheer genius, though, [this one of John Ashcroft](http://www.pmbrowser.info/hublog/archives/000778.html) takes the prize. (WARNING! LINK IS NOT WORK SAFE!) ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041/104 "2004-04-09T22:44:52Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > And yes, I dismiss every statement made by Moore, Limbaugh and O’Reilly unless it is corroborated by a more reliable source, as should you. They are all proven liars who cannot be trusted. You should catch Randi Rhodes on Air America Radio sometime – she was yelling at her audience the other day, “Don’t trust me! Don’t trust _anybody!_ Go out, do the research, and draw your own conclusions! All I do is give you something to look for!” Whatever your political affiliations are, you gotta admit that’s damn good advice. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041/105 "2004-04-09T23:39:45Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > (WARNING! LINK IS NOT WORK SAFE!) > > I think the Bush composite is an appropriate and poignant reminder. > > For sheer genius, though, [this one of John Ashcroft](http://www.pmbrowser.info/hublog/archives/000778.html) takes the prize. > > (WARNING! LINK IS NOT WORK SAFE!) That _IS_ genius. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041/106 "2004-04-09T23:40:45Z")
> [@r\_k](#): > > It makes me laugh/throw up my hands/let out an anguished grunt (depending how I’m feeling) to hear people talking about using images of dead soldiers for “political purposes”. > > For fuck’s sake! They \*\*died \*\* for a purely political purpose! I think that is somehow quite a lot worse than using their pictures. Jesus. I totally agree > [@](#): > > And for what it’s worth, from this side of the Atlantic, people like Moore (and, thank God, a lot of the posters on the SDMB) are the only evidence we have that there are actually people with \*functioning fucking brains \* over there, and not just morons that’ll swallow whatever shite Bush crimps off daily from between his simian butt cheeks. Wait, let’s not go overboard here. A lot of things have changed since 9/11 but Moore is not one of them. He was a jerk before then and he is still a jerk. I just don’t think this particular instance proves anything one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041/107 "2004-04-09T23:42:08Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > You should catch Randi Rhodes on Air America Radio sometime – she was yelling at her audience the other day, “Don’t trust me! Don’t trust _anybody!_ Go out, do the research, and draw your own conclusions! All I do is give you something to look for!” > > Whatever your political affiliations are, you gotta admit that’s damn good advice. I also love the quote from the [Notebooks of Lazarus Long](http://www.bobgod.com/writer/lazaruslong.html): > [@](#): > > What are the facts? Again and again and again – what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history” – what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts! ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041/108 "2004-04-10T01:31:11Z")
> [@Una Persson](#): > > So, verifying how many “pixels” make up an image is being a “weasel” now? Why exactly is that? Claiming such, in fact, seems to _exactly_ back up the implication (which I don’t share) that the picture is purposely meant to mislead as to the number of dead. “Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain?” Of course verifying doesn’t make anybody a “weasel”. Question is, what to do upon uncovering a discrepancy in numbers? One can go to the source and see immediately that discrepancy is honestly explained and proper number is prominently displayed, or one can start calling everybody’s attention to the discrepancy without bothering to check for explanation first. The latter would be done by someone trying to show off or having an ulterior motive. I think in either case the term “weasel” is appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041/109 "2004-04-10T01:41:12Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Of course verifying doesn’t make anybody a “weasel”. Question is, what to do upon uncovering a discrepancy in numbers? Well, what I did was say: > [@](#): > > The page doesn’t claim to be made solely from 648 photos, it just mentions that is the bodycount. I only pointed out correctly the difference, and what the page said. Of course, I do also have some opinions as to whether or not it is respectful to use the pictures of the dead in this way. However, this is most certainly not the place to discuss that. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041/110 "2004-04-10T01:59:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Just curious: is it possible, in your eyes, for Moore to make any type of political statement without you seeing it as self-promotion? Not to answer for **UncleBeer** here, but not when the photo is hotlinked to a page which is a blatant advertisement for Michael Moore’s new book. It is self-promotion, plain and simple. “See this neato edgy leftist photo? Cool, huh? Now buy my book!” I actually wonder what MM is worth. I suspect it’s enough to cast serious doubt on his “hatred” of corporate America and capitalism in general, otherwise he wouldn’t be hocking his book like a snake oil salesman. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041/111 "2004-04-10T02:34:05Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > I actually wonder what MM is worth. I suspect it’s enough to cast serious doubt on his “hatred” of corporate America and capitalism in general, otherwise he wouldn’t be hocking his book like a snake oil salesman. I don’t ever recall Michael Moore espousing a hatred of capitalism. Do you consider harmful labour practices fundamentally indivisible from a free-market economy? Based on what the man considers [useful links](http://www.michaelmoore.com/links/index.php?linkType=Research), he seems to be advocating for folks educating themselves about how to make informed choices for working within a capitalist democracy in a beneficial way. I don’t see anything to suggest he would prefer some other economic model. I looked all over the place for revolutionary manifestos, directions to working communes, or even a simple exposition on the practicality of an anarcho-syndicalist system, and the manifold benefits that it offers the labouring class. Nope, as near as I can make out, Big Mike (like a lot of people) seems to agree that a democratic, capitalist society is the best system that we have been able to work out so far. If you think a desire to hold onto the necessary gains the working class fought so hard to earn in the early part of the last century makes someone a bally bolshy, then, uh… Wave the Red Flag high! Or something. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2004, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041/112 "2004-04-10T04:17:05Z")
I am confused. The OP is ostensibly against MM. Most responses approve of that. But it was against MM based on certain picture. Most responses approve of the picture. I am confused (and full of wine). ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2004, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041/113 "2004-04-10T05:15:18Z")
> [@Machetero](#): > > > [@county](#): > > > > Originally Posted by county: > > Moore is an interesting guy and has made at least one excellent film. > > > > As far as: “can Moore claim one thing that has ever actually changed for the better because of his chest thumping?” > > > > Sure, they don’t sell ammo at K-Mart anymore and he has made a lot of folks think. > > That is 2 things. > > They do, but not pistol ammo. Of course this in one of the reasons that I wouldn’t piss on the lousy SOB if the cocksucker was on fire. (This board is great for keeping me focused on who the real enemy is.) I’ll bet you’d put a 9mm slug in his burning head, though. Wouldn’t you **Machetero**? If you could get the bullets at the Kmart, that is. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2004, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041/114 "2004-04-10T05:46:38Z")
Look closely at this controversial image… Fact: The resolution of this image will increase greatly in the upcoming, minutes/hours/days/months/years. George W. Bush will become more and more clear as the face behind the carnage as this picture is clearly resolved with new and needless American deaths. Fact: The darkness in the background (behind George Bush) and the dark shadings/highlights of this montage will become more disproportionate and pronounced. Fact: George W. Bush is a criminal. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2004, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041/115 "2004-04-10T07:14:25Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Not to answer for **UncleBeer** here, but not when the photo is hotlinked to a page which is a blatant advertisement for Michael Moore’s new book. That’s the home page for his web site. The ad for his book is merely the top thing on the page, and has been that way for a while now. Also note that Moore’s “War president” picture page includes a blurb that reads, “Click the image to go to my home page”, which is that thing with the book ad and the newspaper links and the other stuff. Geez, is it that hard to comprehend? ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2004, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041/116 "2004-04-10T08:19:32Z")
Hmmm…let’s see what happens when you click on a link to [Bill O’Reilly’s](http://www.billoreilly.com) homepage? Why, it’s top to bottom self promotion for all of Bill’s paying gigs! There is not one shred of politically relevant material or linkage on this index.htm! Does he really have anything relevant to say or is it just $pew for the highest bidder? I mean, I thought he was looking out for us!?? That Commie Michael Moore should take a page from the capitalist playbook and devote his entire index to CA$H MUNNY instead of cluttering it up with relevant material and protest crap! ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2004, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041/117 "2004-04-10T11:42:43Z")
This co-opting of the dead in pursuit of a (political) agenda they may not have supported, seems to be a modern trend. You aren’t allowed to use someone’s name without their consent while they’re alive: “Corporal Smith loves product A” . . without fear of civil action against you, and it seems morally reprehensible that (that) person should be available to any and all agendas once killed: “Corporal Smith died for corporate America” Such is the morality of modern public life, it’s difficult to think the formal Estate and/or family of the dead shouldn’t have the same legal _protection_ as would the dead had they not been killed – as it is, their memory seems available to all and sundries for whatever purpose suits. Trailer park cheap and horribly disrespectful. ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2004, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041/118 "2004-04-10T13:05:14Z")
“Trailer park cheap and horribly disrespectful.” Well, that is certainly an opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041/119 "2004-04-10T18:35:04Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’m referring to [this](http://michaelmoore.com/index_hires.php), a photomosaic of Bush made from the photographs of those killed in action in Iraq. It is horribly disrespectful to their memories and their families to use their likenesses to promote Michael Moore far more than it attacks George Bush. > > And for all the high publicity attendant to his stunts and documentaries and (for God knows what reason) bestselling books, can Moore claim one thing that has ever actually changed for the better **because** of his chest thumping? > > Fucker. Moore is an asshole that tries to walk upright like a man, but fails. I imagine there are a lot of people who think that was a really cool thing to do. They’re assholes, too. That mosaic was sheer, utter disrespect for the service people who died for their country. But the assholes will blame Bush for their deaths, and at the same time totally ignore their own complicity in those deaths. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041/120 "2004-04-10T19:07:22Z")
“Their own complicity in those deaths…” Hmmmmm. Kept the best for last, did you? Could you be a bit more specific? Who, exactly, these “assholes” are, and what, precisely, is the nature of thier “complicity”? I quite agree that there are a number of “assholes” who are “complicit”. I suspect, however, that my list (Bush, Cheney, _et. al._) might be different than yours. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-have-you-at-last-no-decency-short/239041.md?page=7)