# Michael Moore is a big fat phony- why do people support this lying hypocrite? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 18, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789 "2008-03-18T15:40:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/41 "2008-03-18T19:42:36Z")
[QUOTE=ITR champion] Could you tell me exactly where in the film he makes this claim? Moore’s point was that Roger ruined the lives of thousands of employees. That’s what makes Roger a worthless excuse for a human being. [/QUOTE] My apologies if wrong, I literally haven’t seen it since 1989- I thought there was the implication in there that he promised this or that or said he did not intend the layoffs, etc. He definitely paints him out to be a callous asshole, and plays up the pathos of asking him to come and visit families evicted on Christmas Eve or some such bullshit. What is the point- the company made a decision to close a factory it felt it needed to close and as a result a small city that relied heavily on those jobs was pretty much ruined- and the sun came up this morning- where’s the revelation? What would would it prove to have some laid off guy get to stand in his foreclosed home and call Roger Smith names? Does Roger get sexually excited when thinking of the laid off workers? Does he revel in that people are now in the poor house becasue of him? If not, what’s the point of the film? Again, I haven’t seen it in 20 years, so if any of the above is wrong, my apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/42 "2008-03-18T19:43:50Z")
I like Moore’s films because they discuss things that I’m interested in, from a perspective that I don’t often see. I don’t think he’s the second coming or anything like that, and I take his films with a similar grain of salt like the one I use when watching the news. If there were other films on similar subjects, with similar perspectives, I would watch them, too. Anyone want to pony up some easily accessible titles for me to add to my must-watch list? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/43 "2008-03-18T19:49:32Z")
One thing that grates me about this issue (and so many issues on the SDMB) is that people who are anti-Moore (which is quite a reasoanble position to hold) seem to think that people who are at least somewhat pro-Moore (which is quite a reasonable position to hold) are in fact rabidly blindly pro-Moore (which is a much less reasonable position to hold). I’ve enjoyed several of Moore’s movies. And I think that he has done the country an ENORMOUS service by making and releasing several of his movies when he did, which brought some vitally important issues into the forefront of national discussion. (I’m particularly thinking of **F911** and **Sicko**.) That said, I do think he were a bit more careful about not playing fast and loose with editing and vague-but-inaccurate implications, and he seems like a bit of a douchebag, personally. (Although that’s just a vague impression.) So, I’m glad he exists, but, even though I’m a liberal, I hardly consider him to speak for me, and wouldn’t really say I’m a “fan”. (Whereas, I’m definitely a fan of, for instance, Al Franken.) ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/44 "2008-03-18T19:52:04Z")
[QUOTE=MaxTheVool] One thing that grates me about this issue (and so many issues on the SDMB) is that people who are anti-Moore (which is quite a reasoanble position to hold) seem to think that people who are at least somewhat pro-Moore (which is quite a reasonable position to hold) are in fact rabidly blindly pro-Moore (which is a much less reasonable position to hold). I’ve enjoyed several of Moore’s movies. And I think that he has done the country an ENORMOUS service by making and releasing several of his movies when he did, which brought some vitally important issues into the forefront of national discussion. (I’m particularly thinking of **F911** and **Sicko**.) That said, I do think he were a bit more careful about not playing fast and loose with editing and vague-but-inaccurate implications, and he seems like a bit of a douchebag, personally. (Although that’s just a vague impression.) So, I’m glad he exists, but, even though I’m a liberal, I hardly consider him to speak for me, and wouldn’t really say I’m a “fan”. (Whereas, I’m definitely a fan of, for instance, Al Franken.) [/QUOTE] That pretty much what Richard Gere of all people said when interviewed in Manufacturing Dissent- something to the effect of ‘I don’t always agree with his methods or tactics, but the general work he’s doing is something I agree with so I support him.’ ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/45 "2008-03-18T19:53:32Z")
The point of the movie was to show the audience what happened to a city when the corporation it depended on decided to lay off a big chunk of the population. The efforts to confront Roger were a stunt, intended to emphasize the disconnect between the world Roger inhabited and the conditions that were created for his ex-employees. As for Moore himself trying to evade some other guy, wecan surely all agree that making a movie just to bash some other filmmakers is a pitiful waste of human talent and energy. Hence, for Moore to duck that filmmakers is only common sense. In any case, I don’t do pit threads, so I’ll bid you all good day. Happy bashing. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/46 "2008-03-18T20:00:44Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Have you read any of the debunking on the sites you asked for, or any of the comments posted here? Are you really implying people are just jealous of fat guy getting rich and winning awards? Just to pull out one point of out hundreds, you don’t think its dishonest to flat out imply Charlton Heston ran to Denver 48 hours after the shootings and gave his cold dead hands speech? Or that Moore was given a gun two minutes after opening a checking account? Surely you know the difference in editing for time/content/flow and editing for deception- he even splices words and sentences from many different speeches to “prove” what he wants in some cases. [/QUOTE] Well, we’re no longer in GD, but The Pit. Given the nature of the OP, a good move. So I don’t need to wade through the crap so kindly supplied. How nice of Moore to provide a cottage industry for those nitpicking his work. But some of the nitpickers probably **are** a wee bit jealous that Moore is rich & famous. And they aren’t. Yes, I know what editing is; it isn’t always linear. I watch/read anything with a grain of salt. Most people do. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/47 "2008-03-18T20:07:16Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] Well, we’re no longer in GD, but The Pit. Given the nature of the OP, a good move. So I don’t need to wade through the crap so kindly supplied. How nice of Moore to provide a cottage industry for those nitpicking his work. But some of the nitpickers probably **are** a wee bit jealous that Moore is rich & famous. And they aren’t. Yes, I know what editing is; it isn’t always linear. I watch/read anything with a grain of salt. Most people do. [/QUOTE] So you don’t need to read material that you have not read but are denouncing, simply because the thread moved? Well I’ve actually had a person in a converstion rail away about what an evil bastard Heston was for holding the imaginary Denver rally two days after the shootings. You should realize that not everybody is as bright as you- look at how many people mindlessly went along with Dubya’s invasion, all because he said there were nukes in Iraq. One can’t say Moore is any different just becasue he’s a liberal, it the same crap, just on a different side, which doesn’t make it right. And there is no nitpicking minor stuff, like he said something happened at five o’clock when it happend at five thirty- were talking full on fabrications. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/48 "2008-03-18T20:07:46Z")
[QUOTE=AskNott] Hardy’s first “truth” is a Silly-Putty® stretching of the vicious Willie Horton ads. Dukakis had (foolishly, in my opinion) promised a clean, truthful campaign. The Horton ads are generally attributed to Lee Atwater, who later apologized for them, when he learned he was dying. The ads, for which the link no longer works, blamed Horton’s furlough on Dukakis, though the governor was not in the chain of command for that program. After the damage had been done, and before Dukakis defended himself, GHW Bush half-heartedly denounced the Willie Horton ads, and called for a “kinder, gentler” America, thus robbing his opponent of the chance to counter-attack. This is now known as the Kindler Gentler Gambit, because GHWB didn’t always handle the phrase well. You shred your opponent by way of some back-channel org, then you call for a civil tone in the campaign. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Did you actually read the link? Moore took two ads. One of which mentioned Willie Horton, one of which did not. One was done by the Bush campaign, one was not. He edited them together, made one new ad out of the two and then added a caption that didn’t belong to either of the commercials. A caption that was incorrect in the original movie. That has nothing to do with if you believe the two separate ads were truthful or not. How it was portrayed in the movie was a fabrication. But that is not nearly the worst of it. In comparison it is minor. Go on to read the next thing about Heston and the NRA. That goes more than a little past editing. I have no problem with documentaries that are biased towards a certain point of view. Why wouldn’t they be? It is one person’s perspective. But when they start making shit up it becomes something else. Fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/49 "2008-03-18T20:09:01Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] \ I watch/read anything with a grain of salt. Most people do. [/QUOTE] I must respectfully disagree with you on this point; I don’t think most people evaulate what they see, hear, and read for truthiness. I think taking in information with your critical faculties engaged is the exception rather than the rule. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/50 "2008-03-18T20:10:01Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] His attack on a 90 year old Charton Heston, who he duped into getting an interview by using his phony NRA cred [/QUOTE] What was phony about Moore’s NRA cred? ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/51 "2008-03-18T20:15:05Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] What was phony about Moore’s NRA cred? [/QUOTE] He is of course a real member, I meant he used the membership to dupe an old man into thinking he was an ally, then ambushed him. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/52 "2008-03-18T20:18:20Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] I must respectfully disagree with you on this point; I don’t think most people evaulate what they see, hear, and read for truthiness. I think taking in information with your critical faculties engaged is the exception rather than the rule. [/QUOTE] I concur. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/53 "2008-03-18T20:19:59Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] He is of course a real member, I meant he used the membership to dupe an old man into thinking he was an ally, then ambushed him. [/QUOTE] So you called his credentials phony, even though they are perfectly legitimate, to further the point you were trying to make? How Moore-esque of you. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/54 "2008-03-18T20:20:26Z")
[QUOTE=AskNott] That site itself is packed with distortions, outright lies, and broad, unsupported claims. You’ll have to do better than that. [/QUOTE] The first thing I read at that “cite”, > [@](#): > > … The film shows CBS and CNN calling Florida for Al Gore. According to the narrator, “Then something called the Fox News Channel called the election in favor of the other guy….All of a sudden the other networks said, ‘Hey, if Fox said it, it must be true.’” > > We then see NBC anchor Tom Brokaw stating, “All of us networks made a mistake and projected Florida in the Al Gore column. It was our mistake.” > > Moore thus creates the false impression that the networks withdrew their claim about Gore winning Florida when they heard that Fox said that Bush won Florida. > > In fact, the networks which called Florida for Gore did so early in the evening—before polls had even closed in the Florida panhandle, which is part of the Central Time Zone. NBC called Florida for Gore at 7:49:40 p.m., Eastern Time. This was 10 minutes before polls closed in the Florida panhandle. Thirty seconds later, CBS called Florida for Gore. And at 7:52 p.m., Fox called Florida for Gore. Moore never lets the audience know that Fox was among the networks which made the error of calling Florida for Gore prematurely. Then at 8:02 p.m., ABC called Florida for Gore. Only ABC had waited until the Florida polls were closed. > > About an hour before the polls closed in panhandle Florida, the networks called the U.S. Senate race in favor of the Democratic candidate. \*\*The networks seriously compounded the problem because from 6-7 Central Time, they repeatedly announced that polls had closed in Florida–even though polls were open in the panhandle. (See also Joan Konner, James Risser & Ben Wattenberg, Television’s Performance on Election Night 2000: A Report for CNN, Jan. 29, 2001.) > > The false announcements that the polls were closed, as well as the premature calls (the Presidential race ten minutes early; the Senate race an hour early), may have cost Bush thousands of votes from the conservative panhandle, as discouraged last-minute voters heard that their state had already been decided; some last-minute voters on their way to the polling place turned around and went home. Other voters who were waiting in line left the polling place.\*\* … so, folks in their cars and actually on line at polling places didn’t vote because … they heard the race for President was over on TV ten minutes before the polls closed? Just how many people in Florida have TVs in their cars, and were watching them while waiting on line to vote? 'Cause you’ll notice that the cite referenced is _Joan Konner, James Risser & Ben Wattenberg, **Television’s Performance on Election Night 2000** : A Report for CNN, Jan. 29, 2001_, not “The Media’s” or “Broadcast Journalism’s”, television’s. Dave Kopel doesn’t seem to be above “stretching the truth to make a point” any more than Moore is. [QUOTE=Marley23] A documentary is a movie that presents an argument. There’s no requirement that it be evenhanded. I think the first movie that won an Oscar for best documentary didn’t even have any real footage of the event it was depicting. Different standard, maybe, and it doesn’t excuse any dishonesty from Moore. But sometimes I hear people say that his movies are not documentaries because they are biased, and that’s not true. Heh. [/QUOTE] Yup, these are the AoMPAaS’s rules for the category “documentary”, > [@](#): > > \*\*Rule Twelve > Special Rules for The Documentary Awards > > I. DEFINITION\*\* > An eligible documentary film is defined as a theatrically released non-fiction motion picture dealing creatively with cultural, artistic, historical, social, scientific, economic or other subjects. It may be photographed in actual occurrence, or may employ partial re-enactment, stock footage, stills, animation, stop-motion or other techniques, as long as the emphasis is on fact and not on fiction. [RIGHT][CITE](http://www.oscars.org/79academyawards/rules/rule12.html)[/RIGHT] that’s it, nothing about the film meeting some journalistic standard of truthiness. [QUOTE=Wee Bairn] … What is the point- the company made a decision to close a factory it felt it needed to close and as a result a small city that relied heavily on those jobs was pretty much ruined- and the sun came up this morning- where’s the revelation? What would would it prove to have some laid off guy get to stand in his foreclosed home and call Roger Smith names? Does Roger get sexually excited when thinking of the laid off workers? Does he revel in that people are now in the poor house becasue of him? If not, what’s the point of the film? … [/QUOTE] As I recall it, the point was that the guy(s) who should be feeling the pain of poor business and the decisions that make it poor never actually have to see or feel any of it. If the Roger Smiths of the world were fired and their homes went into foreclosure, then maybe “laid off guy” would at least feel that the playing field was somewhat level. The fact that Roger Smiths of the world never seem to get fired or get their wages cut or lose their job benefits etc proves it is not. CMC +fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/55 "2008-03-18T20:28:31Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] So you don’t need to read material that you have not read but are denouncing, simply because the thread moved? Well I’ve actually had a person in a converstion rail away about what an evil bastard Heston was for holding the imaginary Denver rally two days after the shootings. You should realize that not everybody is as bright as you- look at how many people mindlessly went along with Dubya’s invasion, all because he said there were nukes in Iraq. One can’t say Moore is any different just becasue he’s a liberal, it the same crap, just on a different side, which doesn’t make it right. And there is no nitpicking minor stuff, like he said something happened at five o’clock when it happend at five thirty- were talking full on fabrications. [/QUOTE] Oh, I’d have to study those sites to “denounce” them, just as the Moore Haters have spent hours poring over his movies. Calling them crap is just a reaction to similar crap I’ve read. Yes, I’m bright. I’ve known Dubya since he was my governor & I’ve never believed he was worth a damn. How many people died because of Moore’s “fabrications”? As many as have died in Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/56 "2008-03-18T20:29:49Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] So you called his credentials phony, even though they are perfectly legitimate, to further the point you were trying to make? How Moore-esque of you. 😉 [/QUOTE] Exactly! It was just a post, not meant to be taken literally 🙂 seriously though, I meant he used real credentials in a phony way, like if I get a young girl to come to my car as I’m an actual cop, and they try and assault her. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/57 "2008-03-18T20:37:01Z")
First of all, I’m a best-of-both-worlds guy when it comes to Moore: I think he’s an insufferable asshole who makes good movies. The one question that I always ask to his haters, and that I never get an answer to, is show me a documentary that’s _not_ biased or edited. They seem to think ‘documentary’ = hard news or something. Nothing could be further from the truth. Just last weekend I watched _The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters_, an innocuous documentary if there ever was one, only to log onto the internet and find out it was _very_ creatively edited. Some of the events were shown out of sequence, some things that would’ve made bad characters look good (and vice-versa) were removed, and one Kong champ - along with his record-breaking high score - was completely left out of the film! You know what, though? It was still entertaining. It was still informative. And the overall thesis survived intact. Say Michael Moore is fat (if you’re really immature), say he’s an asshole, say his movies suck, but don’t say they aren’t documentaries. You sound hilariously stupid. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/58 "2008-03-18T20:43:15Z")
FWIW, Moore posts “factual back-ups” on his website: [Sicko](http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/), [Fahrenheit 9/11](http://www.michaelmoore.com/books-films/f911reader/index.php?id=16), [Bowling for Columbine](http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/)… ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/59 "2008-03-18T20:44:41Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] First of all, I’m a best-of-both-worlds guy when it comes to Moore: I think he’s an insufferable asshole who makes good movies. The one question that I always ask to his haters, and that I never get an answer to, is show me a documentary that’s _not_ biased or edited. They seem to think ‘documentary’ = hard news or something. Nothing could be further from the truth. Just last weekend I watched _The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters_, an innocuous documentary if there ever was one, only to log onto the internet and find out it was _very_ creatively edited. Some of the events were shown out of sequence, some things that would’ve made bad characters look good (and vice-versa) were removed, and one Kong champ - along with his record-breaking high score - was completely left out of the film! You know what, though? It was still entertaining. It was still informative. And the overall thesis survived intact. Say Michael Moore is fat (if you’re really immature), say he’s an asshole, say his movies suck, but don’t say they aren’t documentaries. You sound hilariously stupid. [/QUOTE] Your point has been made several times upthread, not that anyone has taken that position here anyway. Most docs are done to get you to agree to the makers POV, no problem there- the problem is when you make up shit to prove a point. You want us to think Charlton Heston is an asshole, fine, maybe he is, just don’t base your centerpiece for doing so on the totally fabricated notion that he ran to Denver 48 hours after the shootings to hold a pro gun rally and gave his cold dead hands speech there. Its dishonest. Take for example Errol Morris’ (a real documentarian BTW) The Thin Blue Line- he feels this guy on death row is innocent of the killing of a cop. How does he go about this- by painstakingly showing how in his (possibly biased) interpration of the facts of the case that he has, how the guy isn’t guilty- he doesn’t invent spliced video of the guy being asleep in bed 100 miles away when the killing occured, as Moore might well do. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/60 "2008-03-18T20:44:57Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Moores first “documentary” is filled with lies, half-truths, and deliberate misrepresentations. [/QUOTE] Really? Can you point out a few? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789.md?page=4)