# Michael Moore is a big fat phony- why do people support this lying hypocrite? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 18, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789 "2008-03-18T15:40:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/101 "2008-03-19T15:02:07Z")
Post 89 is a perfect example. It makes a specific claim, but no cite. How do I know when the networks called Florida? ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/102 "2008-03-19T15:07:38Z")
[QUOTE=Alan Smithee] Post 89 is a perfect example. It makes a specific claim, but no cite. How do I know when the networks called Florida? [/QUOTE] There’s an article on CBS sportsline that says the Celtics beat the Rockets last night- how do I know that really happened? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/103 "2008-03-19T15:26:51Z")
Well, maybe someone could, I don’t know…provide a [link](http://sportsline.com/nba/gamecenter/recap/NBA_20080318_BOS@HOU)? I mean, that’s how people usualy do a citation here, but I’m not picky. Use APA-style if you want. Go crazy! ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/104 "2008-03-19T15:28:41Z")
[QUOTE=Alan Smithee] Well, maybe someone could, I don’t know…provide a [link](http://sportsline.com/nba/gamecenter/recap/NBA_20080318_BOS@HOU)? I mean, that’s how people usualy do a citation here, but I’m not picky. Use APA-style if you want. Go crazy! [/QUOTE] Your link proves nothing! How do I know that CBS Sportsline isn’t secretly an ally of the Boston Celitcs and wants people to think they won when they really didn’t? There are several links that expose Moore’s bs in this thread, some partisan, some not- Again, the doc I quote in the OP was made by **Canadians** , who are always fair and just. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/105 "2008-03-19T15:34:40Z")
[QUOTE=Alan Smithee] Post 89 is a perfect example. It makes a specific claim, but no cite. How do I know when the networks called Florida? [/QUOTE] Other than sending you 8 hours of coverage from each network that night, how could you be satisfied this was the case? Here’s a hint that it may be true- Moore hasn’t sucessfully refuted this point. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/106 "2008-03-19T15:49:49Z")
Look, do what you want. You’re arguing a position, I’m telling you what would convince me. And anti-Moore websites and filmakers won’t do it, no matter what country they’re from. Maybe you don’t care about convincing people, you just want to blow off some steam. That’s fine. Whatever floats your boat. Or maybe I’m the only one on the SDMB who cares about cites and evidence. Anything is possible. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/107 "2008-03-19T15:53:45Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Again, the doc I quote in the OP was made by **Canadians** , who are always fair and just. [/QUOTE] [Canadians are not always fair and just](http://www.littlesistersbookstore.com/court.asp). ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/108 "2008-03-19T16:05:24Z")
Michael Moore is to the left as Fox News is to the right. I don’t much like fact-fudging propaganda, regardless of which side generates it. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/109 "2008-03-19T17:12:32Z")
[QUOTE=Helen’s Eidolon] I do not like Moore. The search function is down, but I debunked that whole ‘Canadians own more guns per capita than Americans’ bullshit previously on the board (I’m pretty sure). People like him make us look bad - I don’t want him on my side. [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > The gun ownership rate is not at all comparable between the US and Canada, according to this study, done by the Canadian Firearms Centre (sponsored by the Canadian Department of Justice). I find it a bit ironic that you first claim Moore claimed that “Canadians own more guns per capita than Americans,” and then modify that to “comparable” levels between the US and Canada. I recall him saying something more akin to the latter, which I think is still arguably not correct. However, I loved the irony of your misrepresenting Moore’s claim in taking him to task for it. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/110 "2008-03-19T17:42:41Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] I think you have some unresolved issues you need to address. [/QUOTE] Like expressing my condemnation (here in the Pit) of an overweight hack filmmaker that disseminates half-truths to the eager masses? OK. Selah. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/111 "2008-03-19T17:46:00Z")
[QUOTE=BrainFireBob] I’m seething a bit, so I’ll restrict myself to two comments. One, the problem with Moore is that, despite claims that his films are entertainment, it is patently obvious when you watch them that they are intended to _convince_. That is the problem with Moore. He deliberately spreads misinformation amidst a large audience that does not, regretably, seek to become educated on the issues. Two, Bridget, you keep making non sequitur arguments. “How many have died because of Moore’s lies, as many as have died in Iraq?” So, let’s see, the implication is that if you condemn Moore you must condemn Bush. OK. Doesn’t mean Moore’s not condemned. Doesn’t mean that there’s not anger at Bush- a separate issue. Oh, but Bush’s lies are more powerful! In some ways, but since Moore’s films get quite a bit of play in Western democracies, it makes him effectively a demagogue figure, and that’s why he enrages me, at least. [/QUOTE] The _non sequitur_ that offends you especially was a response to this from **Wee Bairn** : > [@](#): > > Well I’ve actually had a person in a converstion rail away about what an evil bastard Heston was for holding the imaginary Denver rally two days after the shootings. You should realize that not everybody is as bright as you- look at how many people mindlessly went along with Dubya’s invasion, all because he said there were nukes in Iraq. One can’t say Moore is any different just becasue he’s a liberal, it the same crap, just on a different side, which doesn’t make it right. Actually, I don’t think that an edit that might mislead the simple is quite the same as starting a war on lies. ( **Martin Hyde** also thinks most people are fools; at least he knows how to spell!) This is the pit & _non sequiturs_ are allowed. This is where the enraged can seethe on that Moore is Evil, Evil, Evil. And express their dislike of Western Democracies, as well. (?) And the rest of us can point & laugh! ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/112 "2008-03-19T18:11:28Z")
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] Like expressing my condemnation (here in the Pit) of an overweight hack filmmaker that disseminates half-truths to the eager masses? OK. Selah. [/QUOTE] No like this “Keep getting fatter, fatass.” Did some fat kid push you down last week and steal your lunch? You sound just like an 8 year old. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/113 "2008-03-19T18:16:03Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] No like this “Keep getting fatter, fatass.” Did some fat kid push you down last week and steal your lunch? You sound just like an 8 year old. [/QUOTE] Actually I thought that post was the highlight of the thread. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/114 "2008-03-19T18:22:03Z")
People support him because they disagree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/115 "2008-03-19T18:40:43Z")
[QUOTE=Helen’s Eidolon] I debunked that whole ‘Canadians own more guns per capita than Americans’ bullshit previously on the board (I’m pretty sure). [/QUOTE] Congratulations, though I don’t recall where in _Bowling for Columbine_ Moore claimed that. He said, as I recall, that we were a “gun-loving” country. in that we have a lot of guns and not a huge amount of resistance to gun ownership. I don’t recall at any time him saying we had more guns per capita than Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/116 "2008-03-19T19:09:54Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] Welcome to almost every documentary, news story, “60 Minutes”-type show, and magazine article ever created. They feed you the meat and potatoes (interesting stuff), but if you want the brussels sprouts (objective truth), you’re on your own. Blame Moore if you want, but don’t hang him by himself. With movies like _Zeitgeist_, _Loose Change_, and _What the Bleep_ out there - which make Michael Moore look like Edward R. Murrow, and are more popular right now, especially among young, impressionable people - Moore is pretty low on my outrage list. [/QUOTE] In addition to that. . .almost all the topics he has taken on have used the exact same techniques – stringing facts, lies, and innuendos together into an undecipherable mesh – to make their point. The difference is, Michael Moore didn’t start a war with his movies. He’s not trying to jack you out of health care that is rightfully yours, and he didn’t shoot up a classroom of high school students. If the people who support the policies that HE BELIEVES have led to those things are going to have their propaganda spread as truth amongst their congressmen, and media outlets, then Fucking Bully for Michael Moore if he wants to do the same thing with his causes. You can’t dispute propaganda with facts. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/117 "2008-03-19T19:22:50Z")
I seriously don’t see that much a difference between Moore and that other well known consumer advocate/shyster Kevin Trudeau- both “expose” how govt. and big business collude to screw the common man and things like that, so the common man pays each to learn this info, KT and MM get wealthy and the common man gets a little knowledge and what else? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/118 "2008-03-19T20:54:33Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] No like this “Keep getting fatter, fatass.” Did some fat kid push you down last week and steal your lunch? You sound just like an 8 year old. [/QUOTE] I’ve observed many here in the Pit go on equally immature diatribes in my short time here. I guess we’ll all jump off a cliff together. And in my first post, if you recall, I even admitted my own immature tactic. I was basically just effing around. Even if he is a tad “portly” or “jowlerrific”. It just adds to his mystique, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/119 "2008-03-19T21:07:08Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Congratulations, though I don’t recall where in _Bowling for Columbine_ Moore claimed that. He said, as I recall, that we were a “gun-loving” country. in that we have a lot of guns and not a huge amount of resistance to gun ownership. \ [/QUOTE] How are you supposed to kill gophers without a gun? Trap them all in snares? That would take forever! ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789/120 "2008-03-19T21:09:08Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk] In addition to that. . .almost all the topics he has taken on have used the exact same techniques – stringing facts, lies, and innuendos together into an undecipherable mesh – to make their point. The difference is, Michael Moore didn’t start a war with his movies. He’s not trying to jack you out of health care that is rightfully yours, and he didn’t shoot up a classroom of high school students. If the people who support the policies that HE BELIEVES have led to those things are going to have their propaganda spread as truth amongst their congressmen, and media outlets, then Fucking Bully for Michael Moore if he wants to do the same thing with his causes. You can’t dispute propaganda with facts. [/QUOTE] The thing is, if he is stringing facts, lies, and innuendo together, how do we (the moviegoing public) know if his causes are valid? His BELIEF shouldn’t matter a flying fuck to anyone unless he supports his theories with facts, not by stringing together facts, lies, and innuendo. For example, take Columbine. We all know there’s a problem, the school shootings have continued. But what if there is a more effective way to go about solving this problem besides gun control? Does he know for a _fact_ that gun control will stop or greatly lessen school shootings? Has he proved it? If you found out that someone here on the SDMB was making an argument by stringing together facts, lies, and innuendo, would you be impressed? Would this discovery make you more inclined to accept their position, or less? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-big-fat-phony-why-do-people-support-this-lying-hypocrite/441789.md?page=7)