# Michael Moore is a prick of the highest order. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 2, 2003, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158 "2003-09-02T16:30:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158/41 "2003-09-02T21:50:08Z")
I believe that Moore himself has state that he doesn’t really think of his films as documentaries but sort of as a cinematic equivalent of an editorial column. They are opinion pieces but they get categorized as documenaries because there is really no adequate category to put them in. [Let the “fiction” jokes begin] ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158/42 "2003-09-02T21:54:26Z")
Just to reinforce what I hope was **mhendo** ’s point (above),0 Mr. Moore’s declaration of truthfulness was drafted with nearly **December** like craftiness and cunning, and dishonesty—if it is a _fact_ it is by definition _true_. If an assertion is _untrue_ then it is by definition _not a fact_ . It is nice to know that weasel wording is alive and well. We will see more of it before we are done. As far as Frankin’s new book is concerned, some of the lies disclosed are pretty feeble, as the criticism of Secretary Rumsfeld for saying that there are stone crosses (row on row) in the Arlington Cemetery. On the broad view, however, Frankin’s book is pretty persuasive of his base proposition that the Neo-conservatives who are running the show and their running dogs consistently lie if a lie will serve their interests and that the mainline press is too cowed or too lazy to call them on the issue. Frankin’s discussion of the memorial service for Senator Wellstone is especially telling. You will recall that a fair number of our friend on these boards were especially exercised by what they saw as, or were told was, a political carnival and general disgrace. Those of our friends ought to read the book. They should take their apoplexy medicine first. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158/43 "2003-09-02T22:00:35Z")
Moore is an industrial-strength idiot and asshole but nobody here dares say so because this board is run by pinko-leftist-commies, as we all know. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158/44 "2003-09-02T22:30:53Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. Money to Afghanistan - the figure I heard was $43 million to the Taliban gov’t in 2001 as a reward for destroying poppy fields. Not in food and humanitarian aid, but as part of the “war on drugs”. I don’t know about figures from 2000; perhaps Moore’s dollar amount was an exaggeration, but I thought the point itself was valid. This has been debunked on this board by myself and others. It was humanitarian aid. Moreover, it was not “given to the Taliban.” Long ago on this board, I once conjectured that there may have been some ‘linkage’ between the 43 mil in humanitarian aid and the drug war or something else. This is pure speculation on my part. The editorial that these ‘facts’ are based on is pure crap. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158/45 "2003-09-02T23:14:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > \*\*It might be a great movie - if Moore would acknowledge that it’s nothing more than _entertainment_. He won’t do that, however. He holds it out as a documentary. Which it most certainly is not. Moore earns the enmity of the SDMB for his misleading tactics and intentional deception. I can’t say whether he lies outright, or not, but he certainly plays fast-and-loose with the truth when it suits his agenda. \*\* Hey, aren’t you supposed to be a Left-Wing Nazi like the entire governing body of this board? Shape up, Mister! You, too, **Coldie**! signed— ``` The Evil Left Wing Cabal Hierarchy of the SDMB of the Anarchy Dog ``` ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158/46 "2003-09-02T23:19:53Z")
on a more serious note, i usually defend Moore when he gets attacked by people who don’t understand what he was saying, but i don’t think i can defend this one. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158/47 "2003-09-02T23:58:20Z")
Ya know, I really gotta learn to bookmark stuff. Sometime in the last ten days there was a link right here on the good ol’ SDMB to a very interesting website, a page of which was devoted to debinking the debunkers. It was extremely calm and well-reasoned, and made perfect sense. Now the question is…where the hell is that friggin’ link??? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158/48 "2003-09-03T00:01:13Z")
That would be debunking. Although debinking kinda sounds innersting, don’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158/49 "2003-09-03T00:01:54Z")
Moore _used_ to be great, he had points about the damage corporate America is doing to the “little folks” and then Moore hit it big, and he just started being pissed off for no other reason than being pissed off. Frankly, I soured on him when Nader was running for President this last time, and I’ve seen nothing from him that’s made me reconsider. Oh, and as someone said in the Hollywood Babylon thread > [@](#): > > They’re not inaccuracies, it’s performance art. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158/50 "2003-09-03T00:43:54Z")
Deboinking? ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158/51 "2003-09-03T00:47:46Z")
[Here’s that 43 million “dollars” to the Taliban back in May of 2001.](http://www.afghan-info.com/News/US_Aid.htm) > [@](#): > > US Assistance to Afghanistan: > > The 43 million package includes: 65,000 tons wheat 5 million food commodity > 19 million livehood, food security Year-to-date assistance: 124 million > More than 200,000 tons wheat Note also, it was distributed through the UN. > [@](#): > > \*\*U.S. aid to Afghanistan bypasses the ruling Taliban militia, which controls the bulk of the country but has no official relationship with the United States because of its alleged role as a sponsor of terrorism. > > There are no U.S. officials in Afghanistan managing the aid program. The assistance is donated through international agencies of the United Nations and non-governmental organizations.\*\* > > According to U.N. officials, more than 200,000 Afghanis have fled to neighboring Iran and Pakistan, joining more than 2 million who had fled there earlier because of the war. The U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees is expected to issue an appeal to donors for additional aid to Afghani refugees in Pakistan. > > About a half million Afghanis are internally displaced, with refugee camps in Herat in western Afghanistan growing by an estimated 1,200 a day. > > Leonard Rogers, a top official of the Agency for International Development, citing estimates by U.N. agencies, said the crop shortfall for Afghanistan is estimated at 2 million tons this year, about twice the figure for last year. Robert Scheer – the columnist who started this urban legend – and Moore are making all this up. If the money got to the Taliban they have nobody but the UN and NGOs to blame. Which I don’t think happened either. Scheer and Moore are just dangerous liars with an agenda. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158/52 "2003-09-03T00:56:10Z")
To paraphrase Condi Rice, he ain’t a fact-checker. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158/53 "2003-09-03T01:13:02Z")
That’s really a damn shame. The guy has a knack for self-promotion, and he’s not afraid to make a fool of himself to get his point across. But, in my eyes, slanting the facts via careful editing, and cooking statistics to create a false impression ain’t much different from lying. True, Al Franken does the same thing; in his book “Rush Limbaugh Is A Big Fat Idiot,” he creates a fictitious interview with Limbaugh in which he uses quotes from actual Limbaugh speeches and interviews, slanted in such a way as to create the idea that Rush is a bloated, toadlike, vicious, hateful, barely sapient Republican hog-beast. The difference here is that Franken tells us EXACTLY what he is doing before launching into his “interview.” He uses the technique in order to satirize the fact that Limbaugh did the exact same thing on his show some time earlier, WITHOUT admitting that. And now, it would seem, we have Michael Moore doing the same stinkin’ thing. Man, I’m disappointed. What, the horrible truth isn’t enough? (I also found the part of the film where Moore goes around opening people’s doors kind of interesting. I live in Texas, where there are more guns than in some COUNTRIES, and I never lock my door. When I’m in the house, that is. Who locks the door when they’re HOME? But in each case we see where Moore goes up and tries a door, not only is the door unlocked, but there are people at home in the house. And this proves what?) ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158/54 "2003-09-03T04:28:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beagle \* > \*\*This has been debunked on this board by myself and others. It was humanitarian aid. Moreover, it was not “given to the Taliban.” > > Long ago on this board, I once conjectured that there may have been some ‘linkage’ between the 43 mil in humanitarian aid and the drug war or something else. This is pure speculation on my part. The editorial that these ‘facts’ are based on is pure crap. \*\* I pulled the number from a letter my Hubby wrote in May of 2001 protesting the Bush administration’s policies; apparently that figure was quoted in our local (Republican-leaning) daily newspaper, to which he was responding. Although of course there’s no telling where they got it from. Sheesh, even [CNN.com](http://CNN.com) agrees with your statement, **Beagle**. I agree with **Wang-Ka** ; I feel cheated. And I was all riled up and everything. What a raw deal. ---
**Author:** ![Jello](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@Jello](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jello)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158/55 "2003-09-03T05:12:17Z")
Here’s another link on the lies and stagings in Bowling for Columbine: > **[Michael Moore, Humbug](https://www.city-journal.org/html/michael-moore-humbug-12441.html)** > > The Left’s media darling spins a world of falsehood. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158/56 "2003-09-03T05:45:30Z")
It’s kind of sick really, I mean Moores’ work really meant something when he did Roger & Me, but talk about a shit spiral. He’s hitched his wagon to the same media frenzy he rails against, and openly dares anyone to refute him. He cares no more about the everyman, than your average republican does about the environment. Even so, that’s the thing that’s the hardest to deal with regrding MM, because he’s right out there lying, cheating and shamelessly promoting along with the rest of them. With me, his credibility hit the crapper right after his award speech. Besides, Mike is damn sure no Jello Biafra. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158/57 "2003-09-03T08:09:40Z")
I enjoyed the film. I though it was great. I absolutely HATED the K mart stunt, though. And as was stated earlier, of course every fact was true. Every damn one. ('cause if it wasn’t true, it wasn’t a fact) If he had said every _statement_ was true… You had to take some stuff with a grain of salt. Like the gun death figures for other countries, contrasting them with ours. And making no mention of the contrasting population size. I am disheartened to learn of the editing together of different speeches by Heston. There was certainly no need for that. Did he similarly edit the interview? Because Heston came off looking very bad. There was much in the film that was thought-provoking. Especially his point about the media seeming to _encourage_ irrational fear. I agree that his points would carry more weight without the distortions. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158/58 "2003-09-03T13:55:34Z")
> [@](#): > > MOORE: Every fact in the film is true. Absolutely every fact in the film is true. And anybody who says otherwise is committing an act of libel. Actually, this is entirely accurate. The _facts_ in BfC are true. The parts that Moore made up, distorted, quoted out of context, and lied about, are not true. In the same sense, the sixteen words in Bush’s speech are also completely true and accurate. British intelligence did, in fact, report what Bush said they did. The trouble is, I don’t think either Bush or Moore meant to be self-parodying. Oh, and **Diogenes** - Franken is definitely a liar. Maybe not in his book - I haven’t read it, so I couldn’t say - but Franken is an admitted liar. Did you need the cite again? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158/59 "2003-09-03T13:59:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, and Diogenes - Franken is definitely a liar. Maybe not in his book - I haven’t read it, so I couldn’t say - but Franken is an admitted liar. Did you need the cite again? What, that prank again? Please. :rolleyes: Find something false in his book and then maybe I’ll care. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158/60 "2003-09-03T15:22:45Z")
I do not know if Franken is a liar but he is _definitely_ an idiot. The title of his book about Limbaugh says it all about him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-is-a-prick-of-the-highest-order/199158.md?page=4)