# Michael Moore just posted a picture of Trayvon Martin's dead body **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 12, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367 "2013-07-12T22:58:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/241 "2013-07-21T22:47:28Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > This is nonsense-he wouldn’t have gone to trial if he hadn’t been white…or close enough. The police/prosecutors had already investigated the situation, found it within the bounds of the SYG laws, or self-defense, and were not going to prosecute until pressured by the black/whiteshooter-blackvictim-inFlorida lobby. You left out some critical parts of that story. The lead Detective did not believe his story and wanted to bring charges. He even told people to " read between the lines because there was stereotyping involved in the shooting. He did not buy his story. He wrote an affidavit saying this but the upper rungs shut him down from making an arrest. Hmmm, well lets see, gzs dad is a white judge, and he has a friend who had worked there at spd…it was the fact tm was black that an arrest wasnt made, and if not for public outcry and pressure to proceed based on the facts, then gz wouldnt even have gone to trial. Shoot a dog, go to jail, shoot a black kid and walk away. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/242 "2013-07-21T22:53:42Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Provably?😛 You mean, because his judge daddy pinky swore he wasnt or the fact he tutored a black kid? You dont have much personal experience or knowledge of how racism works, do you? You think that because he tutored a black kid or had some token black friend who acts white that means hes not racist? You probably buy the old “see, im not racist because I have a great aunt who is half black or I have a black friend” canned answer, right? No, I think because someone is actively anti-racist, they are, in fact, anti-racist. It’s actions that matter, and Zimmerman’s actions are observably not racist. Now, it’s certainly possible he has racist thoughts and feelings, but realises they are wrong, and that’s what motivates him to act in an anti-racist fashion, but I don’t think that would be something to criticise too much. It’s not so much “see I’m not racist because I have a black friend” as “see I’m not racist because I am actively anti-racist, and have not actually done anything racist”. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/243 "2013-07-21T23:15:44Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > had some token black friend who acts white that means hes not racist? Would you elaborate on that? ---
**Author:** ![DuckHunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@DuckHunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DuckHunter)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/244 "2013-07-22T00:01:03Z")
[http://shark-tank.net/2013/07/20/trayvon-martin-alledged-to-have-assaulted-his-teacher/](http://shark-tank.net/2013/07/20/trayvon-martin-alledged-to-have-assaulted-his-teacher/) I thought the case was over. At any rate, what do you people think of the claim the reason Trayvon Martin was kicked out of school was because he punched a teacher, and also his father had to drive Trayvon to Sanford after he punched a bus driver on the way over? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/245 "2013-07-22T01:35:32Z")
> [@DuckHunter](#): > > [http://shark-tank.net/2013/07/20/trayvon-martin-alledged-to-have-assaulted-his-teacher/](http://shark-tank.net/2013/07/20/trayvon-martin-alledged-to-have-assaulted-his-teacher/) > > I thought the case was over. At any rate, what do you people think of the claim the reason Trayvon Martin was kicked out of school was because he punched a teacher, and also his father had to drive Trayvon to Sanford after he punched a bus driver on the way over? The story says that someone asked his father about that allegation. The father denies it. The story does not say where the allegation came from or what the reliability of it is. Thus, it can be safely dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/246 "2013-07-22T03:18:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The story says that someone asked his father about that allegation. The father denies it. > > The story does not say where the allegation came from or what the reliability of it is. > > Thus, it can be safely dismissed. The bus driver reference is supposedly from his twitter account and it was his cousin who mentions it. From the [Daily Mail](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120504/Trayvon-Martin-case-He-suspended-times-caught-burglary-tool.html): Yu ain’t tell me yu swung on a bus driver,’ a user Tweeted to Travyon’s alleged account five days before he was killed. So it would take some substantiation to get something like that in court but it would be easy to track down through police records. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/247 "2013-07-22T03:38:14Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, I think because someone is actively anti-racist, they are, in fact, anti-racist. It’s actions that matter, and Zimmerman’s actions are observably not racist. > > Now, it’s certainly possible he has racist thoughts and feelings, but realises they are wrong, and that’s what motivates him to act in an anti-racist fashion, but I don’t think that would be something to criticise too much. > > It’s not so much “see I’m not racist because I have a black friend” as “see I’m not racist because I am actively anti-racist, and have not actually done anything racist”. You got the “see look at me, Im not racist” mentality part right. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/248 "2013-07-22T08:16:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The bus driver reference is supposedly from his twitter account and it was his cousin who mentions it. From the [Daily Mail](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120504/Trayvon-Martin-case-He-suspended-times-caught-burglary-tool.html): > > Yu ain’t tell me yu swung on a bus driver,’ a user Tweeted to Travyon’s alleged account five days before he was killed. > > So it would take some substantiation to get something like that in court but it would be easy to track down through police records. The article makes no effort to explain how or why we know that the Twitter account belongs to the cousin, or why the cousin’s accusation should be believed even if the account is his. This is unsubstantiated nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/249 "2013-07-22T15:09:54Z")
Actually, the father didn’t deny the claim Trayvon struck a teacher. Tracy states he has no knowledge of it. which comes across as evasive . This is going nowhere. Maybe someone should start a thread about the upcoming hearing regarding the alleged hiding, and destruction of exculpatory evidence by the Prosecutors. Judge Nelson said she would decide the matter after the trial, but no date has been set. Omara’s claim is that this amounts to “direct criminal contempt.” ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/250 "2013-07-22T15:24:17Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > You left out some critical parts of that story. The lead Detective did not believe his story and wanted to bring charges. And yet he told the FBI [something completely different:](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/12/2892510/detective-in-zimmerman-case-said.html) > [@](#): > > Sanford Police Officer Chris Serino first made headlines when evidence released in the case showed he sought manslaughter charges against Zimmerman even while his chief publicly said there was no probable cause to arrest him. But a document released late Thursday casts doubt on Serino’s prior sworn affidavit seeking criminal charges, and raises questions about the credibility of the star law-enforcement witness in the murder case against Zimmerman for the shooting death of a black teenager, Miami Gardens high school junior Trayvon Martin.. > > Telling the FBI that he was concerned that people inside the police department were leaking information, Serino cited Sgt. Arthur Barnes, officers Rebecca Villalona and Trekelle Perkins “as all pressuring him to file charges against Zimmerman after the incident,” an FBI report said. “Serino did not believe he had enough evidence at the time to file charges.” The original FBI document can be read [here](http://www.scribd.com/doc/151186793/Detective-Chris-Serino-FBI-report). > [@Tollhouse](#): > > He even told people to " read between the lines because there was stereotyping involved in the shooting. He did not buy his story. He wrote an affidavit saying this but the upper rungs shut him down from making an arrest. As noted above, Serino told the FBI he didn’t file charges because he didn’t have sufficient evidence (considering the acquittal, he was right). And Serino testified that Zimmerman’s account was generally truthful despite some inconsistencies, and that he was credible. As for your other remark, the FBI report also says: > [@](#): > > Serino believed that Zimmerman’s actions were not based on Martin’s skin color rather based on his attire, the total circumstances of the encounter and the previous burglary suspects in the community. > [@Tollhouse](#): > > Hmmm, well lets see, gzs dad is a white judge, and he has a friend who had worked there at spd…it was the fact tm was black that an arrest wasnt made, and if not for public outcry and pressure to proceed based on the facts, then gz wouldnt even have gone to trial. Shoot a dog, go to jail, shoot a black kid and walk away. The facts weren’t enough to prove Zimmerman guilty of anything. Public outcry and pressure couldn’t change that inconvenient fact. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/251 "2013-07-22T16:43:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The article makes no effort to explain how or why we know that the Twitter account belongs to the cousin, or why the cousin’s accusation should be believed even if the account is his. > > This is unsubstantiated nonsense. the account was suppose to belong to Zimmerman, not his cousin. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/252 "2013-07-22T18:39:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > the account was suppose to belong to Zimmerman, not his cousin. Same objection: The article makes no effort to explain how or why we know that the Twitter account belongs to Martin, or why the cousin’s accusation should be believed even if the account is Martin’s. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/253 "2013-07-22T18:44:08Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Hmmm, well lets see, gzs dad is a white judge, and he has a friend who had worked there at spd…it was the fact tm was black that an arrest wasnt made, and if not for public outcry and pressure to proceed based on the facts, then gz wouldnt even have gone to trial. Shoot a dog, go to jail, shoot a black kid and walk away. All untrue, and foolish attempts to create relevance to boot. Zimmerman’s father is not a judge. He was a magistrate in Virginia. A Virginia magistrate is not a judge, and in fact doesn’t have to be a lawyer. Until recently, a magistrate didn’t even need a college degree. A Virginia magistrate is not any kind of powerful position, and certainly doesn’t carry power to unduly influence anything out of state. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/254 "2013-07-23T04:06:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Same objection: The article makes no effort to explain how or why we know that the Twitter account belongs to Martin, or why the cousin’s accusation should be believed even if the account is Martin’s. I’m just pointing out where the rumori came from. If there is something to it it’s easily documented. There aren’t that many bus companies he could have traveled on. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/255 "2013-07-23T15:55:40Z")
Right. It could be easily documented. At the very least, a bus driver would be eager to talk about it. I have no doubt at all that the defense would have found and deposed this bus driver and any witnesses, for even if any of this tale would have been excluded from court it would be another juicy bit to release to the press. And yet, with the full glare of our nation’s attention on this case, there is nothing known about this alleged incident save a throwaway line on Twitter. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/256 "2013-07-23T16:19:55Z")
> [@sugaree](#): > > Right. It could be easily documented. At the very least, a bus driver would be eager to talk about it. I have no doubt at all that the defense would have found and deposed this bus driver and any witnesses, for even if any of this tale would have been excluded from court it would be another juicy bit to release to the press. > > And yet, with the full glare of our nation’s attention on this case, there is nothing known about this alleged incident save a throwaway line on Twitter. I agree, I just posted where the rumor came from. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/257 "2013-07-23T16:20:32Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m just pointing out where the rumori came from. If there is something to it it’s easily documented. There aren’t that many bus companies he could have traveled on. So go ahead. Document it. And until then, it’s meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/258 "2013-07-23T17:15:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So go ahead. Document it. And until then, it’s meaningless. What part of “I agree” did you miss and at what point do you think I ever cared? I simply provided the origin of the rumor and presented it as such. I’m not invested in Zimmerman. I don’t care. But feel free to answer my repeated legal questions regarding manslaughter. I’d still be interested in your opinion on that. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/259 "2013-07-23T17:32:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What part of “I agree” did you miss and at what point do you think I ever cared? I simply provided the origin of the rumor and presented it as such. I’m not invested in Zimmerman. I don’t care. > > But feel free to answer my repeated legal questions regarding manslaughter. I’d still be interested in your opinion on that. Post #? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/260 "2013-07-24T03:41:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Post #? Well it goes back a ways but you’ve mentioned there might have been a case for manslaughter and I wanted to hear your thoughts on it. I only know the broad-ax side of law from college and that was mostly applied to business cases. And if you’re bored you could fill us in on the potential for a civil trial. They’ve always seemed like double jeopardy to me. I know the type of evidence allowed is more relaxed but I don’t know how it’s quantified. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367.md?page=14)