# Michael Moore just posted a picture of Trayvon Martin's dead body **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 12, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367 "2013-07-12T22:58:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/161 "2013-07-15T20:28:41Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Keep trumpeting your ignorance. No need to give him any lip. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/162 "2013-07-15T21:51:43Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Or he didn’t take Zimmerman’s gun because Zimmerman’s account of what happened, was fabricated. Andiethewestie, dont you know all good citizens are supposed to believe gz? (otherwise, it would mean he was lying) get with the program and start believing ! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/163 "2013-07-15T21:56:04Z")
> [@Tacit\_Knowledge](#): > > Really? You’re judging from a corpse that the boy was “defenseless victim”? A sweet, sweet child. Such a precious gem of a Human Being… Get your head out of your ass. You might as well refer to an already-detonated bomb as “inert and harmless”. > > The thug (yes, thug) was obviously up to no good. He was obviously a trouble maker. Sure, he “probably” shouldn’t have died over this but, dammit, you want to go sneaking around homes looking like a bugler your ass must accept the consequence, whatever that may be. > > Just like when a NASCAR driver gets killed in a wreck and the fans want to cry “how could this happen? Life is so unfair.” Boo-effin’-hoo. If you tempt fate for a living your ass deserves what comes your way. Don’t want to get your sorry ass shot? Don’t engage in known high risk, life threatening activities. And if you do and do get your ass killed, well, that’s on you, dumbass. Good riddance. Congratulations…your post shows why we need to fight for civil rights for people of color ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/164 "2013-07-15T22:30:50Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Congratulations…your post shows why we need to fight for civil rights for people of color What are you thinking? End segregation? Give 'em the vote? ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/165 "2013-07-15T22:40:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Then wouldn’t the evidence that backs up the other parts of Zimmerman’s account also have to be fabricated? How did Zimmerman manage that? > > For instance, Zimmerman said Martin sat on top of him pounding his head on the ground. The back of Zimmerman’s jackets, and Martin’s knees, were wet and grass-stained, and an eyewitness testified that he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. How did Zimmerman manage to arrange that, and get an eyewitness to back it up? > > Regards, > Shodan Yeah, the eyewitness did not see any slamming of heads on the ground, nor did he eyeball Trayvon or Zimmerman, he saw two men fighting one appeared to be on top of the other. But the facts get murky after that. So jumping to conclusions is convenient, but not necessarily consistent with anything. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/166 "2013-07-15T22:42:40Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Andiethewestie, dont you know all good citizens are supposed to believe gz? (otherwise, it would mean he was lying) > > get with the program and start believing ! 😃 Oh sorry. I thought the only ones who had to drink the kool-aid were the ones fronting the dollars for Zimmerman’s defense. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/167 "2013-07-16T20:55:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK, let’s talk about “suspicious.” > > Scenario 1: > Ed, a retired plumber who walks around his neighborhood every day, sees a young African-American man walking slowly down the side. He knows there are no African-American families in the neighborhood, and so he crosses the street to intercept the young man. Standing in front of the young man, Ed says to him, “You don’t live here - what are you doing around here?” > > Scenario 2: > Frank, a retired accountant with a concealed-carry permit, and who is carrying a holstered gun, walks around his neighborhood every day. He sees a young African-American man walking slowly down the side. He knows there are no African-American families in the neighborhood, and so he crosses the street to intercept the young man. Standing in front of the young man, Frank says to him, “Hold up – can I talk to you a moment?” > > Scenario 3: > Graham, a police officer who patrols a neighborhood every day, sees a young African-American man walking slowly down the side as he’s on his patrol. He knows there are no African-American families in the neighborhood, and so he pulls his squad car alongside the sidewalk where the young man is walking. Stepping out of his car, Graham says to him, “Hold up – can I talk to you a moment?” > > Do any of those scenarios involve a criminal act? Scenario 3 is a possibility. [The FBI investigates law enforcement officers who infringe upon rights, privileges, or immunities](http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/federal-statutes) and public sidewalks are somewhere we have a general right to be able to walk without harassment. > [@](#): > > Title 18, U.S.C., Section 242 > Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law > > This statute makes it a crime for any person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom to willfully deprive or cause to be deprived from any person those rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution and laws of the U.S. > > This law further prohibits a person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation or custom to willfully subject or cause to be subjected any person to different punishments, pains, or penalties, than those prescribed for punishment of citizens on account of such person being an alien or by reason of his/her color or race. > > Acts under “color of any law” include acts not only done by federal, state, or local officials within the bounds or limits of their lawful authority, but also acts done without and beyond the bounds of their lawful authority; provided that, in order for unlawful acts of any official to be done under “color of any law,” the unlawful acts must be done while such official is purporting or pretending to act in the performance of his/her official duties. This definition includes, in addition to law enforcement officials, individuals such as Mayors, Council persons, Judges, Nursing Home Proprietors, Security Guards, etc., persons who are bound by laws, statutes ordinances, or customs. > > Punishment varies from a fine or imprisonment of up to one year, or both, and if bodily injury results or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire shall be fined or imprisoned up to ten years or both, and if death results, or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death. If Graham and/or his compatriots in the police department do things like this frequently [the FBI may very well be interested](http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/federal-statutes), although the remedy here is civil and not criminal as you specified. > [@](#): > > Title 42, U.S.C., Section 14141 > Pattern and Practice > > This civil statute was a provision within the Crime Control Act of 1994 and makes it unlawful for any governmental authority, or agent thereof, or any person acting on behalf of a governmental authority, to engage in a pattern or practice of conduct by law enforcement officers or by officials or employees of any governmental agency with responsibility for the administration of juvenile justice or the incarceration of juveniles that deprives persons of rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States. > > Whenever the Attorney General has reasonable cause to believe that a violation has occurred, the Attorney General, for or in the name of the United States, may in a civil action obtain appropriate equitable and declaratory relief to eliminate the pattern or practice. > > Types of misconduct covered include, among other things: > > 1. Excessive Force > 2. Discriminatory Harassment > 3. False Arrest > 4. Coercive Sexual Conduct > 5. Unlawful Stops, Searches, or Arrests Depending on the jurisdiction there may be local equivalents which enjoin private citizens from performing stops or engaging in activity which could be considered harassment based on racial perceptions/prejudices. I am unaware of any such law in Sanford, FL. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/168 "2013-07-16T21:24:54Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Yeah, the eyewitness did not see any slamming of heads on the ground, nor did he eyeball Trayvon or Zimmerman, he saw two men fighting one appeared to be on top of the other. But the facts get murky after that. So jumping to conclusions is convenient, but not necessarily consistent with anything. No, his testimony was a bit more specific than “one man on top of the other.” > [@](#): > > Good testified that he saw what he believed to be Martin on top of Zimmerman. > > “The color on top was dark and the color at bottom was…red,” Good said referring to the men’s clothing. > > At another point he told the court that the person on the bottom had “lighter skin color.” > > Zimmerman is a white Hispanic who was wearing a red and black jacket that night. Martin, who was black, was wearing a dark sweatshirt. So do you believe you fairly characterized his testimony, or did you shade it to help your preferred version of the narrative sound better? Seeing his testimony now, would you change your summary, or do you think your summary is still just as accurate as it could be? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/169 "2013-07-17T03:39:01Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Or he didn’t take Zimmerman’s gun because Zimmerman’s account of what happened, was fabricated. and what do you think he fabricated? The injuries to his nose are consistent with his account. The injuries to the back of his head are consistent with his account. The grass stains are consistent with his account and those of witnesses who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. Is it your opinion that a 160 lb 17 year old male cannot beat someone in the manner described or grab for a gun once exposed? ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/170 "2013-07-17T03:49:26Z")
It’s my opinion that Zimmerman is a creep. And his cousin’s statements are consistent with my opinion of him. It’s also my opinion that Trayvon was trying to get away from the creep, but the creep followed him. It’s also my opinion that Trayvon had a constitutional right to get the hell away from a someone like this creep. [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/16/2897557/zimmerman-defense-attorney-will.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/16/2897557/zimmerman-defense-attorney-will.html) ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/171 "2013-07-17T04:04:58Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > It’s my opinion that Zimmerman is a creep. And his cousin’s statements are consistent with my opinion of him. It’s also my opinion that Trayvon was trying to get away from the creep, but the creep followed him. It’s also my opinion that Trayvon had a constitutional right to get the hell away from a someone like this creep. Odd how, instead of trying to get away from him, he came back to him then. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/172 "2013-07-17T12:22:16Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Yeah, the eyewitness did not see any slamming of heads on the ground, nor did he eyeball Trayvon or Zimmerman, he saw two men fighting one appeared to be on top of the other. But the facts get murky after that. So jumping to conclusions is convenient, but not necessarily consistent with anything. How did Zimmerman fabricate the evidence that backs up his story? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/173 "2013-07-17T18:54:16Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > It’s my opinion that Zimmerman is a creep. And his cousin’s statements are consistent with my opinion of him. It’s also my opinion that Trayvon was trying to get away from the creep, but the creep followed him. It’s also my opinion that Trayvon had a constitutional right to get the hell away from a someone like this creep. > > [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/16/2897557/zimmerman-defense-attorney-will.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/16/2897557/zimmerman-defense-attorney-will.html) How about the questions I asked you? Why did you ignore them? > [@](#): > > So do you believe you fairly characterized his testimony, or did you shade it to help your preferred version of the narrative sound better? > > Seeing his testimony now, would you change your summary, or do you think your summary is still just as accurate as it could be? ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/174 "2013-07-18T04:40:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How about the questions I asked you? Why did you ignore them? No, my summary is what I believe is accurate. I don’t believe this asshole, and there will be a time that we’re going to hear about this creep again, in some sort of violent altercation and it won’t be pretty. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/175 "2013-07-18T05:07:16Z")
Look under a rock and look what creeps out [http://politicalblindspot.org/george-zimmermans-old-myspace-surfaces-full-of-racist-statements-and-admissions-of-criminal-activity/](http://politicalblindspot.org/george-zimmermans-old-myspace-surfaces-full-of-racist-statements-and-admissions-of-criminal-activity/) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/176 "2013-07-18T12:49:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Seeing his testimony now, would you change your summary, or do you think your summary is still just as accurate as it could be? > [@Andiethewestie](#): > > No, my summary is what I believe is accurate. I don’t believe this asshole, and there will be a time that we’re going to hear about this creep again, in some sort of violent altercation and it won’t be pretty. I asked if you believe your summary was as accurate as it could be. Let’s look at the summary again, and then the actual testimony: Your summary: > [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Yeah, the eyewitness did not see any slamming of heads on the ground, nor did he eyeball Trayvon or Zimmerman, he saw two men fighting one appeared to be on top of the other. > [@Bricker](#): > > No, his testimony was a bit more specific than “one man on top of the other.” > > > [@](#): > > > > Good testified that he saw what he believed to be Martin on top of Zimmerman. > > > > “The color on top was dark and the color at bottom was…red,” Good said referring to the men’s clothing. > > > > At another point he told the court that the person on the bottom had “lighter skin color.” > > > > Zimmerman is a white Hispanic who was wearing a red and black jacket that night. Martin, who was black, was wearing a dark sweatshirt. Your summary doesn’t distinguish which man was on top - somewhat of a key feature of the narrative. Good’s actual, real testimony DOES in fact reveal which combatant was on top - doesn’t it? Can you explain why you feel your summary is just as accurate, when it deliberately conceals the fact that Martin was on top? ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/177 "2013-07-18T14:59:05Z")
My thought is this: nobody knows exactly what happened, the accounts are confusing at best. One person thinks it was Zimmerman yelling, someone else believes it was Trayvon yelling before he was shot. Grass stains, where a fucking flashlight falls is irrelevant. Ever seen a bar fight? My belief is Zimmerman is a creep, the worst kind of “human being” who should be locked away. He is well known to the police, no wonder he’d never got on the force, his rap sheet is too long. He has been arrested for other crimes, he’s a predator, a guy who sexually abused a little girl, a guy who bragged on his myspace page about beating the “rap” charges in other cases and liked to be as explicitly racist as possible. Trayvon was his next victim. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/178 "2013-07-18T15:49:37Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > My belief is Zimmerman is a creep, the worst kind of “human being” who should be locked away. He is well known to the police, no wonder he’d never got on the force, his rap sheet is too long. He has been arrested for other crimes, he’s a predator, a guy who sexually abused a little girl, a guy who bragged on his myspace page about beating the “rap” charges in other cases and liked to be as explicitly racist as possible. Trayvon was his next victim. We don’t lock people away for being creeps, or being the “worst kind” of person. Fortunately. He has no “rap sheet”. He’s not been convicted of any sex offences, nor even charged or investigated for them. Being pleased that you’ve not been falsely charged with a crime is not an indication of bad behaviour. Whilst he may have been racist ten years ago, or at least made stupid posts that seemed that way (although were hardly explicit), he’s been actively anti-racist since. And, finally, he was Martin’s victim. So, factually wrong on every count. Well done. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/179 "2013-07-18T15:58:25Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > My thought is this: nobody knows exactly what happened, the accounts are confusing at best. One person thinks it was Zimmerman yelling, someone else believes it was Trayvon yelling before he was shot. Grass stains, where a fucking flashlight falls is irrelevant. Ever seen a bar fight? Yes, I have seen a bar fight. if your summary failed to identify who was yelling, then you’d have a point: different witnesses thought different things. Nor am I asking about grass stains or the location of a flashlight. The specific question I asked: Can you explain why you feel your summary is just as accurate,\*\* when it deliberately conceals the fact that Martin was on top?\*\* You haven’t answered that. Have you? ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367/180 "2013-07-18T16:03:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, I have seen a bar fight. > > if your summary failed to identify who was yelling, then you’d have a point: different witnesses thought different things. Nor am I asking about grass stains or the location of a flashlight. > > The specific question I asked: Can you explain why you feel your summary is just as accurate,\*\* when it deliberately conceals the fact that Martin was on top?\*\* > > You haven’t answered that. Have you? I conceal nothing. On the other hand, Zimmerman had a concealed weapon and it’s open season on Black kids as a result. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-just-posted-a-picture-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body/663367.md?page=10)