# Michael Moore = Liar. Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 14, 2004, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240 "2004-06-14T04:15:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240/321 "2004-07-06T06:49:53Z")
Why bother with all the gyrations? As far as the Bush-apologists are concerned, “stupid” simply means “someone who doesn’t think as I do.” ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240/322 "2004-07-06T10:36:51Z")
Brutus, every news agency uses selective quoting every singly day. Moore asked him if he wanted to send his son to Iraq. Kennedy said something about a nephwew going to Afghanistan. It’s not an answer to the question asked. Isn’t it for for you to criticize selective quoting, but only respond to one of my points? I’d rather be a Moore-on and right than be an idiot like you. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240/323 "2004-07-06T10:54:54Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > When I went to see **The Passion of the Christ** the applause at the end was loud and long. Did you see any rows of leftists — having come to criticize the film — beating their own heads and gnashing their teeth in anguish and shame? ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240/324 "2004-07-06T11:44:50Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Why bother with all the gyrations? As far as the Bush-apologists are concerned, “stupid” simply means “someone who doesn’t think as I do.” As opposed to leftists speaking of Them Ignorant Righties? ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240/325 "2004-07-07T01:32:42Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Did you see any rows of leftists — having come to criticize the film — beating their own heads and gnashing their teeth in anguish and shame? You’re weird. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240/326 "2004-07-07T01:51:38Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Did you see any rows of leftists — having come to criticize the film — beating their own heads and gnashing their teeth in anguish and shame? Why should there be? is “leftist” the opposite of “Christian?” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240/327 "2004-07-07T05:20:39Z")
If there’s a mod reading this thread, please close it. It really bothers me that my name is appended to anything so futile. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240/328 "2004-07-07T06:05:55Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Why should there be? is “leftist” the opposite of “Christian?” [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/report.php?p=5036007](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/report.php?p=5036007) If you’re going to play hall monitor, play it even-handedly. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240/329 "2004-07-07T14:08:57Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/report.php?p=5036007](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/report.php?p=5036007) > > If you’re going to play hall monitor, play it even-handedly. I wasn’t playing “hall monitor,” **Lib** , it was an honest question. I just didn’t see the TPOTC as being a political movie. I’m a leftist and I saw the Passion twice in theaters, largely because I had an interest in the subject matter and also because I was intrigued by the use of ancient languages. It never occurred to me that I should have a political opinion of the film. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240/330 "2004-07-07T14:19:11Z")
It all makes sense, **Dio** , if you understand that “Pharisee” is Aramaic for “greedy trial lawyers and cigar-chomping union bosses”. And anyone who doubts Divine Intervention need only look at the Florida “10,000 Jews for Buchanan” miracle. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240/331 "2004-07-07T14:34:44Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I wasn’t playing “hall monitor,” **Lib** , it was an honest question. I just didn’t see the TPOTC as being a political movie. > > I’m a leftist and I saw the Passion twice in theaters, largely because I had an interest in the subject matter and also because I was intrigued by the use of ancient languages. It never occurred to me that I should have a political opinion of the film. Moore claimed in his Jon Stewart interview that his documentary was not a political movie. And yet, Rjung gleefully reported in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5036007&postcount=295) a note from Moore’s site. I’ll paste it here for your convenience: > [@](#): > > Raleigh: “Friday Night’s opener was spectacular. My favorite part of the experience was sitting in front of a group of Republicans that had come to the theatre to debunk the movie. They had the entire row reserved. When the movie ended and the crowd stood up to applaud, I looked behind me to see a row of puzzled patrons with their mouth’s open and the look of shame and embarrassment on their faces.” > –B.R. of North Carolina, to Michael Moore For whatever reason, you did not see fit to ask whether Republican is the opposite of reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240/332 "2004-07-07T15:10:55Z")
Moore’s film is obviously anti-Bush but I didn’t see it as particularly political in the sense of propounding any specific political philosophy other than “Bush sucks.” Moore does not endorse any political party or candidate in the film (I don’t think he even mentions John Kerry’s name) and his criticisms of Bush are arguably not so much philosophical as they are practical and ethical. The reaction of Bush supporters to an anti-Bush film would be directly relevant, especially if said Bush supporters were to hypothetically show some sort of change of heart- or at least embarrassment- after watching the movie. The Passion was a totally apolitical religious statement so contemporary divisions of political 'left" and “right” are irrelevant to the message of the movie. I think a more accurate analogy for TPOTC would be if a group of atheists (or better yet Jews, given the movie’s controversy) had gone to the film to mock it or criticize it and instead had come away chastened. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240/333 "2004-07-07T19:28:07Z")
Someone has to sit down with L **Liberal** and explain (probably with very small words) that one doesn’t have to be a Democrat to think Bush’s policies _vis-a-vis_ Iraq are a disaster. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240/334 "2004-07-10T15:21:59Z")
HOLY SHIT, I found a Michael Moore lie!! Bush wasn’t reading “ **My** Pet Goat” He was reading “ **The** Pet Goat”!! [http://www.answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=367341](http://www.answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=367341) What a miserable bastard! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240/335 "2004-07-10T17:16:32Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The Passion was a totally apolitical religious statement so contemporary divisions of political 'left" and “right” are irrelevant to the message of the movie. I think a more accurate analogy for TPOTC would be if a group of atheists (or better yet Jews, given the movie’s controversy) had gone to the film to mock it or criticize it and instead had come away chastened. Oh, okay. Then was there a row of Jews beating their own heads and gnashing their teeth in anguish and shame? Damn, you can miss a point worse than Bush at a press conference. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240/336 "2004-07-11T07:19:17Z")
For those folks still interested in Michael Moore’s truth-telling skills and/or the accuracy of **Fahrenheit 9/11,** Moore has finally put up cites for all of the facts he presents in the film. [Start here.](http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/index.php?id=16) It’s a doozy, so bring snacks. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240/337 "2004-07-11T12:18:35Z")
Same old bullshit. The very first one. “Fox was the first network to call Florida for Bush. Before that, some other networks had called Florida for Gore, and they changed after Fox called it for Bush.” Aside from being a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy, that isn’t what the film said. The film said that the other networks changed their call because “well, if Fox says it, it must be the truth”. How fucking stupid and desparate must a human being be to defend that sort of nonsense. Furthermore, I doubt that Moore put up anything at all. He was likely hovering over a big sprawling buffet in his penthouse while minions of morons dug it all up and coded it into HTML. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240/338 "2004-07-11T12:40:21Z")
ad hominem much, Libertarian? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240/339 "2004-07-11T13:23:53Z")
Pay attention much, TwistOfFate? I cited his post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. Also, in the unlikely event that the board rules mean anything to you, I would remind you of [TVeblen’s recent ruling](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5048163&postcount=21): > [@](#): > > If you insist on referring to him by his old screen name, that’s deliberately stirring shit, i.e. trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240/340 "2004-07-11T15:18:30Z")
We’re going to need a **Liberal is his name-o** sticky so that poor old **Lib \_\_\_\_\_\_ (don’t you dare fill in the blank)** doesn’t have to keep reminding people that he has a judge’s ruling on this one. Of course, it should be **Classic Liberal** , but that is beside the point. I take it **L** that you have seen the film then? Or are you so sure about what it said from reading a transcript? And in fact, Fox did call it for Bush without sufficient rationale. So why did the other networks do the same? A reasonable conclusion is the pack mentality of the media, the metaphor of the six-year olds playing soccer fits this situation as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-liar-why/250240.md?page=18)