# Michael Moore on Trump supporters -nails it for me **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 30, 2016, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107 "2016-10-30T12:26:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107/21 "2016-10-30T21:04:26Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > John Mace wrote: “…hysterically calling anyone and everyone who disagrees with any wacky “progressive” idea a racist…” I didn’t write that. I quoted **octopus** , who did write that. Honest mistake, I’m sure, so no worries. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2016, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107/22 "2016-10-30T22:47:47Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > John Mace wrote: “…hysterically calling anyone and everyone who disagrees with any wacky “progressive” idea a racist…” > > Except no one _actually_ does that. Let’s use a little logic here. It seems pretty logical that actual racists, whom no one denies the existence of, would oppose anything coming from the first black president. How, then, can it be inaccurate to say that racism is a component of opposition to the President’s policies? A component, of course. The entirety as commonly portrayed? Absolutely not. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2016, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107/23 "2016-10-30T23:29:21Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > … for whatever reason (maybe due to uneven media representation), conservatives can predict, identify, and accurately mimic liberal positions, but liberals can’t do the same for conservatives. I don’t believe it in general, but sometimes I wonder. Are you kidding? Conservative positions on this board are routinely and thoroughly misunderstood or inaccurately presented or summarized. Obviously such a rule is not universally true, but I find it to be far more the norm here than an exception. > [@silenus](#): > > Their side got into power, **that’s** what happened. And they are too blind to see and acknowledge that fact. Quid erat demonstrandum. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2016, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107/24 "2016-10-30T23:36:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I dunno. I read somewhere that it’s better to villainize the opposition. I can’t remember exactly where, but I’ll link to it once I do. uh oh. I’m afraid you’re going to cite _Beptimus’ Bitter and Boorish Barbs, 2nd edition_. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107/25 "2016-10-31T01:11:32Z")
Octopus wrote: “A component, of course. The entirety as commonly portrayed? Absolutely not.” Rephrasing and repeating doesn’t make it any truer. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107/26 "2016-10-31T04:37:40Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Octopus wrote: “A component, of course. The entirety as commonly portrayed? Absolutely not.” > > Rephrasing and repeating doesn’t make it any truer. How ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107/27 "2016-10-31T13:11:58Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > John Mace wrote: “…hysterically calling anyone and everyone who disagrees with any wacky “progressive” idea a racist…” > > Except no one _actually_ does that. Let’s use a little logic here. It seems pretty logical that actual racists, whom no one denies the existence of, would oppose anything coming from the first black president. How, then, can it be inaccurate to say that racism is a component of opposition to the President’s policies? Well, because one’s skin color is immaterial, that’s why. Obama, who is black, is a slightyly bigger fuckup than Carter, who is white. The two of them are leading the pack in Presidential fuckups, and they are almost interchangeable. Skin color has nothing to do with it. Obama’s only achievement in office has been to make Carter look marginally competent. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107/28 "2016-10-31T22:45:55Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Well, because one’s skin color is immaterial, that’s why. Obama, who is black, is a slightyly bigger fuckup than Carter, who is white. The two of them are leading the pack in Presidential fuckups, and they are almost interchangeable. Skin color has nothing to do with it. > > Obama’s only achievement in office has been to make Carter look marginally competent. A President who got most US troops out of Iraq, killed OBL, helped US recover economically from the legacy of the Bush era and introduced some adequate health care reforms, yeah some President. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107/29 "2016-10-31T23:23:06Z")
The problem is the celebrity-worship involved - where Americans see their president as the one person who is either causing all their problems, or could solve all their problems. Voting for Trump is almost irrelevant (though it certainly wouldn’t be GOOD). If the disaffected in these states want change in their lives, they should be looking at their local and state officials, replace their legislators and governors, mayors and senators. This was tried, I admit, in 2010, but the Tea Party candidates elected that year had promised lower taxes and literally nothing else, which is exactly what they delivered. Burning the system contains a certain short-term satisfaction, like any fantasy, and like any fantasy it’s only fun while it lasts, while serious sobering reality can be kept at bay. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107/30 "2016-10-31T23:31:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Conservative positions on this board are routinely and thoroughly misunderstood or inaccurately presented or summarized. Obviously such a rule is not universally true, but I find it to be far more the norm here than an exception. I’m sure you do, but since it’s a tad self-serving, I personally hold your conclusion to be somewhat suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107/31 "2016-10-31T23:34:02Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I don’t see a smiley-face; is it possible you don’t know Moore is a strong supporter of Hillary and hates Trump? Snopes has weighed in - the clip is cut short at the moment Moore finishes building the premise that the second half of his presentation demolishes. In other words, the clip is taken out of its context. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2016, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107/32 "2016-11-01T00:27:36Z")
Eh. I think Moore is hoping there will be a movement of the progressive left and the tea party right working together to promote leftist economics. So he has a point about Trump voters. Some of them do feel left behind economically and Trump does talk about their interests a bit. But a lot of Trump’s support really is cultural. The country is becoming more liberal, more diverse, more tolerant and the people who consider themselves the true Americans (conservative christian married whites) are feeling left behind politically and culturally. Lots of Trump’s supporters probably feel he is a firewall against a country becoming more non-white, more liberal, less religious. They feel this is ‘their’ country, and they think they are losing it to people they consider their inferiors. Non-whites, non-christians, women, liberals, etc. By totally ignoring the cultural appeal of Trump, Moore is being disingenuous in his hopes that the far right and far left will work together to achieve leftist economic goals. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2016, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107/33 "2016-11-01T00:38:09Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > By totally ignoring the cultural appeal of Trump, Moore is being disingenuous in his hopes that the far right and far left will work together to achieve leftist economic goals. I think he’s trying to point out that their actual needs are better met by liberal policies (see: _What’s The Matter With Kansas_.) They have been convinced to vote against their self-interest by appealing to the worst aspects of their nature. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2016, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107/34 "2016-11-01T00:45:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Are you kidding? > > Conservative positions on this board are routinely and thoroughly misunderstood or inaccurately presented or summarized. Obviously such a rule is not universally true, but I find it to be far more the norm here than an exception. Undoubtedly. For perspective, I regularly browse conservative message boards and comment sections for highly nuanced, thoughtful and accurate analyses of who liberals are, what they believe, and what they collectively want to do to the world we live in. It’s really like night and day. Gotta admit, I’m honestly ashamed when I compare it to this board. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2016, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107/35 "2016-11-01T00:54:41Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Undoubtedly. For perspective, I regularly browse conservative message boards and comment sections for highly nuanced, thoughtful and accurate analyses of who liberals are, what they believe, and what they collectively want to do to the world we live in. > > It’s really like night and day. Gotta admit, I’m honestly ashamed when I compare it to this board. If you actually know of a few good examples of thoughtful/accurate, can I ask for some links, sent privately? I admit curiosity. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2016, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107/36 "2016-11-01T01:53:19Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Undoubtedly. For perspective, I regularly browse conservative message boards and comment sections for highly nuanced, thoughtful and accurate analyses of who liberals are, what they believe, and what they collectively want to do to the world we live in. > > It’s really like night and day. Gotta admit, I’m honestly ashamed when I compare it to this board. While I agree liberals do not do a good job of explaining conservative views or values, I do not think conservatives do a good job of explaining liberal values. Much of what I’ve seen is just strawman arguments and insults. That or they just assume the most angry, vocal liberals seen on college campuses are representative of the 20% of the electorate who consider themselves liberals. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107/37 "2016-11-01T02:00:06Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Undoubtedly. For perspective, I regularly browse conservative message boards and comment sections for highly nuanced, thoughtful and accurate analyses of who liberals are, what they believe, and what they collectively want to do to the world we live in. > > It’s really like night and day. Gotta admit, I’m honestly ashamed when I compare it to this board. Are you saying that the conservatives on this board are inarticulate bums? That there is a whole world of thought out there that we are not getting exposed to, just by being here? Most of the rightie sites I see are so far gone, not to mention the (Clinton, Obama…) derangement. Could you just say what sites you are talking about? Why isn’t it in conservatives interests to display this articulacy here and everywhere else? Why would SD cons not be good representatives? Why not share the wealth? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2016, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107/38 "2016-11-01T14:38:28Z")
Jeez, and I thought I laid it on with a trowel. No, I don’t know of any. Not saying they don’t exist, I just haven’t found one. Some of the righty regulars in the Slate comments (or trolls pretending to be conservative, perhaps) are actually kind of witty sometimes, but what kind of shallow thinker traffics in nothing but one-liners? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107/39 "2016-11-01T15:04:22Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Jeez, and I thought I laid it on with a trowel. > > No, I don’t know of any. Not saying they don’t exist, I just haven’t found one. Some of the righty regulars in the Slate comments (or trolls pretending to be conservative, perhaps) are actually kind of witty sometimes, but what kind of shallow thinker traffics in nothing but one-liners? Yeah, you needed a sarcasm filter or something for that one. I suspected it, but I was actually thinking maybe it was serious. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107/40 "2016-11-01T15:38:51Z")
Considering conservatives are outnumbered by liberals 10:1 on this MB (yes, I pulled those numbers out of… somewhere), it should be no surprise that conservative views would be misrepresented more often than are liberal views. Hyperbole is rampant, and the libs have the numbers here. Not rocket science. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moore-on-trump-supporters-nails-it-for-me/770107.md?page=3)