# Michael Moore's secret project: "Where To Invade Next" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 3, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857 "2015-09-03T20:57:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857/21 "2015-09-08T19:32:50Z")
What Moore does is activist filmmaking, rather than documentary. Bush and the rest of the neo-con criminals got what they deserved in Farenheit 911, but there wasn’t even a hint of objectivity. It’s fun to watch right wingers flip out over a lefty bogeyman other than Soros or Sharpton, though. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857/22 "2015-09-08T20:37:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s a very shaky theory. If we hadn’t contested the Soviet Union they wouldn’t have had to devote as much money to defense. If we hadn’t contested their proxies they wouldn’t have had to spend so much money helping them beat our proxies. A Soviet Union that paid more attention to internal matters than foreign adventures might be China today. And that would be a **good** thing, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857/23 "2015-09-08T20:38:55Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > What Moore does is activist filmmaking, rather than documentary. That is no dichotomy; the first is a subset of the second. [_Hearts and Minds_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearts_and_Minds_(film)) was clearly an anti-Vietnam-War film, and clearly a documentary. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857/24 "2015-09-08T21:13:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And that would be a **good** thing, wouldn’t it? A totalitarian Russia/China/East Europe axis? That would not be good at all, actually. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857/25 "2015-09-08T21:33:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > A totalitarian Russia/China/East Europe axis? That would not be good at all, actually. A USSR that dropped its doctrinaire Marxist economics and significantly privatized/liberalized its economy, like the Czechs tried to do in '68 and the Chinese actually did starting in the 1980s? Wouldn’t that be a good thing? And better than what happened in our timeline (the USSR collapsing and its successor states plunging all at once into a capitalist system they had no idea how to run)? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857/26 "2015-09-08T21:53:08Z")
No, because they are weak, with a chance to get stronger as they figure this stuff out, while evolving towards an ever freer system of government. A broken up China struggling towards a democratic system would be better than a strong totalitarian China as well. We’d even get a free Tibet out of the deal. A case can be made that we’re better off with China now than Russia now, since Russia is still adventurist and their weakness makes them paranoid and irrational. But assuming we don’t end up in a nuclear war with Russia, I think what happened to the Soviet Union is a better outcome 50-100 years down the road. China could very well still be totalitarian in 2050, and the most powerful country in the world to boot. And they are not immune to adventurism, they just recognize their relative weakness better than the Soviets did. Once they are strong enough to compete anywhere in the world militarily, all bets are off. Plus Eastern Europe seems pretty happy to be free, which would not have happened in an alternate universe where the Soviets follow a more China-like path. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857/27 "2015-09-08T22:21:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > A broken up China struggling towards a democratic system would be better than a strong totalitarian China as well. But, it is not totalitarian now. It used to be. Now it is authoritarian, which is not the same thing, and which is something that has usually not repelled the U.S. from having friendly relations and trade relations with a country. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857/28 "2015-09-08T22:23:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But, it is not totalitarian now. It used to be. Now it is authoritarian, which is not the same thing, and which is something that has usually not repelled the U.S. from having friendly relations and trade relations with a country. It is actually still totalitarian, they’ve just lightened up on the economic controls. But the people still have no rights. It’s basically Pinochet’s system on steroids. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857/29 "2015-09-08T23:10:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It is actually still totalitarian, they’ve just lightened up on the economic controls. But the people still have no rights. It’s basically Pinochet’s system on steroids. Pinochet’s system was authoritarian, not totalitarian; that was why Chicago-Schoolers and economic-libertarians liked it so much. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857/30 "2015-09-08T23:59:06Z")
THey were ideologues who lost their minds because someone liked their theories. A monster is still a monster even if he believes in single payer or privatization. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857/31 "2015-09-09T02:40:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > A broken up China struggling towards a democratic system would be better than a strong totalitarian China as well. We’d even get a free Tibet out of the deal. Haha. Come on. You don’t give a shit about a free Tibet. It certainly doesn’t mean anything in a geopolitical sense to America. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857/32 "2015-09-09T10:00:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We’d even get a free Tibet out of the deal. We’re calling feudal theocracies “free”, now? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857/33 "2015-09-09T11:04:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You don’t know that until you’ve seen the movie. And, in hindsight, there really was no need for the Cold War. Could you please hop back to the 50s and tell the Russians that. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857/34 "2015-09-09T11:27:37Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I’ve noticed how Moore is quiet when a democrat is in office. I also noticed that Moore and Obama are rarely in the same room together. Coincidence? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857/35 "2015-09-09T12:58:58Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Haha. Come on. You don’t give a shit about a free Tibet. It certainly doesn’t mean anything in a geopolitical sense to America. Neither does a free Taiwan. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857/36 "2015-09-09T13:26:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Neither does a free Taiwan. Really? Nothing? Undersea oil reserves, naval routes, economic ties, China’s sphere of influence in SE Asia, the symbolic historical divide between a free capitalist society and a Communist one? None of those things have geopolitical importance to America? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857/37 "2015-09-09T14:45:44Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Could you please hop back to the 50s and tell the Russians that. C’mon, you know the Cold War was a war of choice – to West only; the Soviets only reacted to it. They had occupied and inevitably Communized Eastern Europe as a defensive tier, quite understandably considering their recent experience, but up to then they had only limited interest in expanding the Revolution worldwide – that’s Trotskyist thinking, and Trotskyism was heresy. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857/38 "2015-09-09T18:08:53Z")
Then why did they fire the first shots of the proxy wars by aiding Greek Communist guerillas? The Truman Doctrine was in response to Soviet aggression. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857/39 "2015-09-10T06:28:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s a very shaky theory. If we hadn’t contested the Soviet Union they wouldn’t have had to devote as much money to defense. If we hadn’t contested their proxies they wouldn’t have had to spend so much money helping them beat our proxies. A Soviet Union that paid more attention to internal matters than foreign adventures might be China today. We contested China in the Korean War, and to some extent in the Vietnam War as well. Why then is China like China today? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857/40 "2015-09-10T17:37:51Z")
[Moore says more:](http://www.salon.com/2015/09/10/michael_moore_calls_donald_trump_bat_sht_crazy_this_is_not_performance_art/) > [@](#): > > Moore says the idea for the film has been germinating for 20 to 30 years, although he is reticent to give too many details, “I don’t want to say a whole lot about this until people see it, because it’s not what you think it is,” he explained. He did reveal that the film is somewhat of a follow-up to Eisenhower’s warning about the rising military industrial complex back in 1961: “It basically gets to show you what happens when we didn’t heed his warning,” he explained. “Not specifically about war — I’m talking about what did we lose in the process. What did we lose of ourselves and where did it go? The movie kind of answers that question in a very funny and provocative way. “ > > Moore says he kept the filmmaking process largely under wraps until recently because he wanted to avoid the social media hype machine. As he put it, “decided to unplug ourselves from social media, publicists, from the hype machine, and just do our best to be artists, do our best to be filmmakers. What kind of film would we make if we disconnected ourselves from all the noise? And that felt really good.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-moores-secret-project-where-to-invade-next/729857.md?page=3)