# Michael Schiavo: Hero **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 7, 2005, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933 "2005-08-07T00:32:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/41 "2005-08-08T03:14:25Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > How is it obnoxious, or is it because you don’t agree with it? Your choice of words and the lack of knowledge they imply. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/42 "2005-08-08T03:16:32Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > How is it obnoxious, or is it because you don’t agree with it? The glib language you use and the utter ignorance of the facts, which you would know just by reading this very thread. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/43 "2005-08-08T03:17:35Z")
Um… what **Marley** said. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/44 "2005-08-08T03:22:50Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > What is honorable or moral about bagging your shack-up honey and having kid(s) while your wife is still alive? 1. His wife was dead. 2. You are not qualified to comment on the nature of his current relationship since you obviously know nothing about it. 3. You need to get your information somewhere else besides Fox News. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/45 "2005-08-08T07:09:31Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > 1. His wife was dead. > 2. You are not qualified to comment on the nature of his current relationship since you obviously know nothing about it. > 3. You need to get your information somewhere else besides Fox News. That’s you’re opinion, which is fine, but it’s also a value judgement against Updike. You’ll have to accept that other people have different moral standards than you do. Some people take their marriage vows seriously. I’m not inclined to award Michael Shiavo any medals because I’ve never been satisfied with his account of the incident or his general behavior. - The timeline for the alleged bulimic event didn’t make sense. It was early morning when she collapsed. She would have purged her dinner meal soon after consuming it to avoid any weight gain. -I’ve never understood why he didn’t attempt CPR when he heard his wife fall. If he was completely unaware of the procedure then emergency personnel could have walked him through it on the phone. -His account of the events vary, not just in content but in logic. If he held his wife in his arms then it would be really strange to put her back down on the floor face down (again, not only a lack of CPR but also a strange way to position a person who is not breathing.). - I’m not fond of the fact that he had Terri’s pets put down 2 ½ years after her accident so he could move in with girlfriend #1. That just rubs me the wrong way. Girlfriend #1 would later testify that she felt threatened by him after they broke up due to his psychotic behavior. - I’m not fond of how he treated the nurses who took care of Terri. I’m not objecting to the opinion that he did the right thing with Terry but if he were my brother in-law I would have been all over him on day-1 trying to find out what really happened. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/46 "2005-08-08T07:38:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m not objecting to the opinion that he did the right thing with Terry but if he were my brother in-law I would have been all over him on day-1 trying to find out what really happened. Perhaps, like the Schiavos, you’d have been totally satisfied by his account of what happened until money became an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/47 "2005-08-08T07:40:21Z")
I’m sorry, that should be “the Schindlers.” I’m also curious as to how his ‘psychotic’ behavior with the girlfriend was an issue, but I’ll skip it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/48 "2005-08-08T09:46:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m not inclined to award Michael Shiavo any medals because I’ve never been satisfied with his account of the incident or his general behavior. > > - The timeline for the alleged bulimic event didn’t make sense. It was early morning when she collapsed. She would have purged her dinner meal soon after consuming it to avoid any weight gain. > -I’ve never understood why he didn’t attempt CPR when he heard his wife fall. If he was completely unaware of the procedure then emergency personnel could have walked him through it on the phone. > -His account of the events vary, not just in content but in logic. If he held his wife in his arms then it would be really strange to put her back down on the floor face down (again, not only a lack of CPR but also a strange way to position a person who is not breathing.). That is exhibit #235 that proves timelines are really the curse of extreme conservatives; this time it is a timeline that has been found to have no evidence to support, or that there was any malice: The prosecutors, that Jeb Bush (undead activist) told them to investigate the timeline, had to say this in the end: > **[TheEmpireJournal.com is for sale | HugeDomains](https://www.hugedomains.com/domain_profile.cfm?d=theempirejournal&e=com)** > > 100% satisfaction guaranteed. Hassle-free shopping. We help you find the right domain name. > [@](#): > > Based on what he refers to as “new information” contained in the Terri Schiavo autopsy report, Governor Bush has requested that our office take a “fresh look at the case” with no “preconceptions as to the outcome.” Governor Bush’s letter noted that the autopsy had not determined the cause of Mrs. Schiavo’s “original injuries” in 1990 and had in fact cast doubt on the explanation that had been the basis of the 1992 malpractice verdict. He also noted that in 1992, 2003 and 2005 Michael Schiavo had given a time for his wife’s collapse that was 40 to 70 minutes prior to the time that his 911 call was received by emergency services. > > …. [snip] > > Time Discrepancies Concerning Terri’s Collapse > Absent proof that a crime has occurred, neither Michael Schiavo’s credibility nor the consistency of his statements would become a critical and material concern. Nonetheless, the discrepancy between his recollection of the time of the incident and the time that paramedics and police recorded receiving the call hardly constitutes new information. Schiavo testified in the 1992 malpractice deposition and trial that he heard a noise around five a.m. and found his wife collapsed near the bathroom door. In a 2003 interview on Larry King Live he indicated this occurred at 4:30 a.m., a time he repeated in a recent interview with medical examiner Jon Thogmartin. Schiavo has consistently said he called for emergency help immediately after finding his wife and that fire rescue arrived within a few minutes of the call. To our knowledge he was never asked about or confronted with the difference between his estimation of the time and the records indicating the fire rescue was called at 5:40 and began resuscitation efforts at 5:52. > > Understandably, Michael Schiavo is not the only witness who has been inconsistent or had difficulty recalling the timing of events surrounding Terri’s collapse and resuscitation. Shortly after finding Terri, Michael Schiavo called his in-laws and told them what happened. It is unclear whether he or the Schindlers called Bobby Schindler who lived in the same complex as Michael and Terri and who immediately went to their apartment and arrived before the paramedics. Although Terri’s parents had been awakened in the middle of the night with extremely disturbing news and waited at their house for a subsequent phone call on their daughters condition, they have no clear idea what time they were called by Michael. They had previously provided our office a timeline indicating that they were called as early as 3-4 a.m. but recently told Thogmartin they could not recall the time. Similarly, Terri’s brother, Bobby Schindler, told Dr. Thogmartin he could not remember the time that he was called or initially arrived at the Schiavo residence except in relation to the arrival of the paramedics. > > It is not contradicted that Michael Schiavo appeared frantic and extremely distraught throughout the incident. Under these extraordinary circumstances, where both Mr. Schiavo and his accusers have similar difficulty in reconstructing exact times, it cannot be credibly argued that this discrepancy is incriminating evidence. Nor, in light of his consistent and uncontradicted claims that he immediately called 911, can his error in estimating the time be considered an admission that he waited over an hour to get help for his wife. It does not appear that Schiavo’s error was considered to be of probative value in either the civil suit or in the subsequent guardianship proceedings. Schiavo was not confronted by opposing lawyers (or by Dr. Thogmartin) with the potential inconsistency nor was he given the exact times recorded by paramedics as a point of reference. The most obvious explanation is also the most logical: under the extremely stressful circumstances his attention to and memory of the exact time were faulty - in the same way that the recollections of Mr. and Mrs. Schindler and Bobby are flawed. > > Curiously, a delay such as this would further undermine the speculation that Michael Schiavo caused Terri’s collapse by assaulting her. Neither the medical examiner nor our assistants were able to identify any plausible manner by which Schiavo - having physically overcome Terri without injuring her or being injured himself - could keep her incapacitated but sufficiently alive that she could still be resuscitated almost an hour later. Additionally, we could discern no rational motivation for attacking one’s spouse allowing her to linger near death for forty minutes or more and then calling for help in sufficient time to save her life so she could potentially name her assailant. > > Family members and others who disagreed with Mr. Schiavo’s decision to seek court approval to have his wife’s feeding tube removed have made repeated attacks on his credibility and accused him of mistreatment of his wife. At least some of these accusations have been shown to be baseless by the autopsy conclusions. We should note, however, that we have also received unsolicited comments praising his honesty, sincerity and devotion to his wife’s care. Also, when asked about her son-in-law during the 1992 malpractice trial, Mary Schindler testified, “He’s there every day. She (Terri) does not want for anything. He is loving, caring. I don’t know of any young boy that would be as attentive. He is … he’s just unbelievable, and I know without him there is no way I would have survived this.” > > In the complete absence of any evidence that Terri’s collapse was caused by anyone’s criminal actions it has been unnecessary for us to attempt to resolve these conflicting portraits of Michael Schiavo’s character. It appears, however, that opinions on his culpability derive from disagreement with the Court’s decision to allow Terri’s life to end and not from any objective consideration of the evidence. If the available facts are analyzed without preconceptions, it is clear that there is no basis for further investigation. While some questions may remain following the autopsy, the likelihood of finding evidence that criminal acts were responsible for her collapse is not one of them. > > We strongly recommend that the inquiry be closed and no further action be taken. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/49 "2005-08-08T10:44:20Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That’s you’re opinion, which is fine, but it’s also a value judgement against \*\*Updike[b/]. You’ll have to accept that other people have different moral standards than you do. Some people take their marriage vows seriously. > > I’m not inclined to award Michael Shiavo any medals because I’ve never been satisfied with his account of the incident or his general behavior. > > - The timeline for the alleged bulimic event didn’t make sense. It was early morning when she collapsed. She would have purged her dinner meal soon after consuming it to avoid any weight gain. > -I’ve never understood why he didn’t attempt CPR when he heard his wife fall. If he was completely unaware of the procedure then emergency personnel could have walked him through it on the phone. > -His account of the events vary, not just in content but in logic. If he held his wife in his arms then it would be really strange to put her back down on the floor face down (again, not only a lack of CPR but also a strange way to position a person who is not breathing.). > - I’m not fond of the fact that he had Terri’s pets put down 2 ½ years after her accident so he could move in with girlfriend #1. That just rubs me the wrong way. Girlfriend #1 would later testify that she felt threatened by him after they broke up due to his psychotic behavior. > - I’m not fond of how he treated the nurses who took care of Terri. > > I’m not objecting to the opinion that he did the right thing with Terry but if he were my brother in-law I would have been all over him on day-1 trying to find out what really happened. \*\*Magiver, Updike[b/], out of curiousity, what’s your take on the behaviour of the Schindlers, Terry Schiavo’s parents, through this mess? CJ ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/50 "2005-08-08T13:14:59Z")
> [@Nic2004](#): > > \ **Scott Plaid** - Thanks for the heading off of the highjack. If there is a thread opened on this however, I’d like to know about it as I feel as you and **rfgdxm** do. No need to start a new thread, save to convince people that their claims have no basis, and I doubt that will happen. Thus, [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=110162) is a link to an old thread. Also, [here is a lighter take on it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=275264) , with a great line from **Crandolph**. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/51 "2005-08-08T15:00:37Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > - I’m not fond of how he treated the nurses who took care of Terri. Actually, that works in his favour in my book. I read a short interview with one of the nurses, who said that he was a real S.O.B. in the way he treated them: demanding instant attention for Terri when he thought she needed it, and yelling at them when they didn’t jump to assist him. In other words, he was always on their asses because he didn’t think they were looking after Terri properly. The nurse said that amongst themselves, the common statement was: “He’s a real S.O.B. in the way he treats us: but if I were in that hospital bed, I hope my husband would do exactly the same thing.” ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/52 "2005-08-08T15:37:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Perhaps, like the Schiavos, you’d have been totally satisfied by his account of what happened until money became an issue. I read nothing about money in his post, are you introducing new material without answering the old. Some people value their marriage vows highly. I don’t know what is wrong with that. I never was satisfied with his account of what happened either. Don’t forget he has no proof Terri wanted to die. That was just hearsay or anedotal. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/53 "2005-08-08T15:42:38Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I read nothing about money in his post, are you introducing new material without answering the old. > > Some people value their marriage vows highly. I don’t know what is wrong with that. I never was satisfied with his account of what happened either. Don’t forget he has no proof Terri wanted to die. That was just hearsay or anedotal. The courts, many many many times determined that there was enough proof to satisfy the necessary burden. Unless you think the only proof is a written, video or some other similar indication of her wishes. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/54 "2005-08-08T15:45:16Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > 1. His wife was dead. > 2. You are not qualified to comment on the nature of his current relationship since you obviously know nothing about it. > 3. You need to get your information somewhere else besides Fox News. His wife was not dead, where was the death certificate? Please tell us how much you know about his current relationship so we can be enlightened. Tell us also how you came into such information, or we will assume you know nothing also. I watch Fox news because I want a fair and balanced viewpoint, not just the same song liberal, secular bias I hear from the other news stations. Incidentally, Fox is number one in viewers. But then I bet you are going to tell me they are all ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/55 "2005-08-08T15:50:38Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > The courts, many many many times determined that there was enough proof to satisfy the necessary burden. Unless you think the only proof is a written, video or some other similar indication of her wishes. The facts are the “evidence” was hearsay. the courts are free to decide what they want, but the might of the courts doesn’t make them right. Many a person has been wrongly charged by courts. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/56 "2005-08-08T15:53:30Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I watch Fox news because I want a fair and balanced viewpoint, not just the same song liberal, secular bias I hear from the other news stations. Secular bias? You mean you prefer a news organization that gives more coverage to unfalsifiable spiritual influences? ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/57 "2005-08-08T15:55:59Z")
No, I think lekatt is upset at the act that NPR actualy reports facts about the consequences of the current regime, rather than spin. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/58 "2005-08-08T15:59:29Z")
> [@kniz](#): > > I have a living will and do not agree with the idea of keeping someone life support. > I don’t think this guy is any hero, however. For ten years he has been living with someone else and had two children with that someone else. He had other motives and is a hero only if the end justifies the means. Regardless of his new personal life, he did right by Terry. Just because he fell in love with someone else doesn’t mean he did wrong by his wife. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/59 "2005-08-08T16:01:23Z")
> [@kniz](#): > > I think that originally he thought there was going to be a lot of money in it for him and then it drug on and it then became a pissing match between him and her parents. > > If he wanted to move on with his life, that’s fine, but he didn’t move on. He lingered around and had it both ways. > > It is alright with me if you think he’s a hero, but he isn’t in my book. Or am I just supposed to rubber stamp the general opinion (so far)? 😕 He didn’t linger around to have it both ways. She would have died long ago if it was up to he and Terry to make the decision. He had a rough go of it for all those years. Her parents should be ashamed of themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/60 "2005-08-08T16:04:28Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > It has to do with moral values, and marriage vows. She left the marriage first, even if against her will. He had every right to move on with his life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933.md?page=4)